7 ms·

Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon

64 points by noad 6y ago

8bithero 6y ago
It seems that Blue Origin must be making good progress.
- MrZongle2 6y ago
  Maybe some day they'll actually reach orbit, instead of just the edge of space.
sharkmerry 6y ago
Is amazon the only way to pubish an ebook? Surely he could just post a PDF for paid download and have readers send the PDF to kindle if they really need to read it there. Calling a book "unreported truths..." while things are rapidly changing is misleading at best
nix23 6y ago
Well he's absolutely right, but in 20 years when SpaceX owns the only Mars-Colony/City i vote also to breakup SpaceX
- mc32 6y ago
  If he makes there I’m sure that colony would seek independence and have its own constitution and laws... maybe he’d incorporate SpaceX in Mars too.
  - nix23 6y ago
    Yes your probably right, but then i will not choose mars or earth but the belter's...oh damn again the amazon connection ;)
- MrZongle2 6y ago
  If there's a viable Mars colony care of SpaceX in 20 years, I'll happily call for their breakup and sing their praises at the same time.
  - nix23 6y ago
    Your are probably disappointed about a corporate owned planet..just saying ;)
Spivak 6y ago
I don’t really know what anyone in this situation wanted to happen here? Amazon and Apple and Google have been trying to stem the tide of a massive wave of low-quality books and apps hitting their stores trying to make a quick buck off people’s ignorance and fear. Refusing to publish content related to COVID because nobody has the time and resources to go through them all is the best you can do. If they just let people publish the story would be “Amazon doing nothing about COVID misinformation spreading through their store.”
- nix23 6y ago
  Yeah, his point are not are not good, but if you think about the Bell-Story (the us allowed just one company to take over the phones-lines the other can make the computers), if you look at amazon and google today, that's definitely a mono-pol.
  - enitihas 6y ago
    In what sector is Amazon a monopoly?
    - nix23 6y ago
      Shopping, Data-centers, Live-Streaming, Audio-book's and E-books maybe even logistics. Edit: Hey Jeff please stop down-voting me, you know it's the truth ;)
      - logicprog 6y ago
        Quoting a comment from upstream in response to this: > In what sector is Amazon a monopoly. Retail? Walmart is much larger and Amazon's share of the market is too small to be a monopoly. Ecommerce? Even in ecommerce, Amazon's share is <50%. So let's summarize: Amazon isn't a monopoly in "shopping" in any sense; there are other companies that run datacenters; since when does Amazon do live streaming? (and even if it does there are a million other apps/websites more people use for that); they don't have a monopoly in audiobooks; and they CERTAINLY don't have a monopoly in ebooks. Just because they're a big noticeable name doesn't make them a monopoly. I'd downvote you if you could, and my name isn't Jeff.
christefano 6y ago
CNBC article with more: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/04/elon-musk-calls-for-amazon-split-after-alex-berenson-claims-censorship.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/04/elon-musk-calls-for-amazon-s...
m0zg 6y ago
He's right though. As far as the first amendment goes, books are the most robust medium we have. You can go to Amazon right now and buy a copy of Mein Kampf, hardcover, paperback, or Kindle. Surely Berenson's book is not worse than Mein Kampf? Here's a though experiment, reductio ad absurdum, if you will. Say you like Bezos' politics and agree with the stuff he wants to censor. Say tomorrow Bezos is run over by a bus and, through a weirdest twist of fate in history (bear with me on this one) Richard Spencer takes his place, complete with his own, very different editorial preferences. Would you still agree that Amazon, as a company, has an unimpeded right to censor speech then? And if not, you need to think very carefully why you're _not_ against giving them this power now.
- enitihas 6y ago
  So do you think bookstores are compelled to sell books? How is that free speech? That is compelled speech. And Amazon is not a monopoly in any reasonable definition. You can sell books on 100 different stores and via so many other publishers.
  - m0zg 6y ago
    Amazon is a monopoly on Kindle, which is what the author has issues with. It's sort of like if there was only one manufacturer of a printing press and they forbade you from printing anything they don't like on it. Also, every time a rebuttal starts with "so", the rest is an attempt at mind reading. Those are always unsuccessful.
    - enitihas 6y ago
      > Amazon is a monopoly on Kindle, which is what the author has issues with. This makes no sense. Companies all have monopolies on their own products. Apple has monopoly on the iPad, which is a similar competing reading device. Sony has monopoly on the PlayStation. Microsoft has monopoly on Office and Xbox. Are you suggesting that all companies should give up the ownership of all of their products? There are several competing products to Kindle, like Nook and even iPad (which funnily enough, tried to monopolistically engage in price fixing)
enitihas 6y ago
In what sector is Amazon a monopoly. Retail? Walmart is much larger and Amazon's share of the market is too small to be a monopoly. Ecommerce? Even in ecommerce, Amazon's share is <50%. Fun fact, Tesla has a 60% of electric car market in the US (https://electrek.co/2020/02/04/tesla-electric-car-sales-us-market-share/ https://electrek.co/2020/02/04/tesla-electric-car-sales-us-m...). Does that mean Tesla is a monopoly, and should be broken up?
- libertine 6y ago
  Honestly this came to me after I've read your reply, and I think you're onto something: Is the 50% market share really necessary to claim who's a monopoly? Maybe it's time to re evaluate the definition of monopoly.
  - enitihas 6y ago
    Sure, let's give politicians a stick to break businesses arbitrarily, since we don't like objective criterias. Got a problem with some CEO, cry monopoly and break it up.
    - libertine 6y ago
      I didn't say we shouldn't have criterias. I said that the "50% market share" seems to have flaws. Why not look at market caps? Well, the last monopoly was broken in 1982, isn't odd that since then no other monopoly has ever existed? You currently have monopolies that serve political agendas, that's a better stick I guess.
      - enitihas 6y ago
        What does monopoly have to do with market cap? Market cap is an abstract concept on how much the market values something, and doesn't have much concrete stuff to be based on. Market cap goes way up during bubbles. If companies were to be broken for profits, there are so many companies ahead of Amazon. >Well, the last monopoly was broken in 1982, isn't odd that since then no other monopoly has ever existed? Many monopolies have existed, like Microsoft for the most famous example. But there is no industry in which Amazon is a monopoly. Unless we were playing a witch hunt where we had to create a monopoly by thin air, I don't know what makes Amazon qualify as one.
mandeepj 6y ago
A couple of days ago he tweeted - "off twitter for a while". I knew he'll be back soon. So, there he is. His "while" is very short :-). There's a pattern here. He wants to be in the news actively. So, he picks up one thing or another. If you are not paying for marketing then you have to do it yourself.
kukx 6y ago
Elon is right it is insane. We do not want monopolies. And especially monopolies on information, books. I am not convinced that splitting a company by a government is the best solution, however in this case I do not see any other quick way to restore a balance, well maybe Amazon choosing to immediately stop its censorship policy.

64 points by noad 6y ago

8bithero 6y ago

It seems that Blue Origin must be making good progress.

MrZongle2 6y ago
Maybe some day they'll actually reach orbit, instead of just the edge of space.

sharkmerry 6y ago

Is amazon the only way to pubish an ebook? Surely he could just post a PDF for paid download and have readers send the PDF to kindle if they really need to read it there. Calling a book "unreported truths..." while things are rapidly changing is misleading at best

nix23 6y ago

Well he's absolutely right, but in 20 years when SpaceX owns the only Mars-Colony/City i vote also to breakup SpaceX

mc32 6y ago
If he makes there I’m sure that colony would seek independence and have its own constitution and laws... maybe he’d incorporate SpaceX in Mars too.
- nix23 6y ago
  Yes your probably right, but then i will not choose mars or earth but the belter's...oh damn again the amazon connection ;)
MrZongle2 6y ago
If there's a viable Mars colony care of SpaceX in 20 years, I'll happily call for their breakup and sing their praises at the same time.
- nix23 6y ago
  Your are probably disappointed about a corporate owned planet..just saying ;)

Spivak 6y ago

I don’t really know what anyone in this situation wanted to happen here? Amazon and Apple and Google have been trying to stem the tide of a massive wave of low-quality books and apps hitting their stores trying to make a quick buck off people’s ignorance and fear. Refusing to publish content related to COVID because nobody has the time and resources to go through them all is the best you can do. If they just let people publish the story would be “Amazon doing nothing about COVID misinformation spreading through their store.”

nix23 6y ago
Yeah, his point are not are not good, but if you think about the Bell-Story (the us allowed just one company to take over the phones-lines the other can make the computers), if you look at amazon and google today, that's definitely a mono-pol.
- enitihas 6y ago
  In what sector is Amazon a monopoly?
  - nix23 6y ago
    Shopping, Data-centers, Live-Streaming, Audio-book's and E-books maybe even logistics. Edit: Hey Jeff please stop down-voting me, you know it's the truth ;)
    - logicprog 6y ago
      Quoting a comment from upstream in response to this: > In what sector is Amazon a monopoly. Retail? Walmart is much larger and Amazon's share of the market is too small to be a monopoly. Ecommerce? Even in ecommerce, Amazon's share is <50%. So let's summarize: Amazon isn't a monopoly in "shopping" in any sense; there are other companies that run datacenters; since when does Amazon do live streaming? (and even if it does there are a million other apps/websites more people use for that); they don't have a monopoly in audiobooks; and they CERTAINLY don't have a monopoly in ebooks. Just because they're a big noticeable name doesn't make them a monopoly. I'd downvote you if you could, and my name isn't Jeff.

christefano 6y ago

CNBC article with more: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/04/elon-musk-calls-for-amazon-split-after-alex-berenson-claims-censorship.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/04/elon-musk-calls-for-amazon-s...

m0zg 6y ago

He's right though. As far as the first amendment goes, books are the most robust medium we have. You can go to Amazon right now and buy a copy of Mein Kampf, hardcover, paperback, or Kindle. Surely Berenson's book is not worse than Mein Kampf? Here's a though experiment, reductio ad absurdum, if you will. Say you like Bezos' politics and agree with the stuff he wants to censor. Say tomorrow Bezos is run over by a bus and, through a weirdest twist of fate in history (bear with me on this one) Richard Spencer takes his place, complete with his own, very different editorial preferences. Would you still agree that Amazon, as a company, has an unimpeded right to censor speech then? And if not, you need to think very carefully why you're _not_ against giving them this power now.

enitihas 6y ago
So do you think bookstores are compelled to sell books? How is that free speech? That is compelled speech. And Amazon is not a monopoly in any reasonable definition. You can sell books on 100 different stores and via so many other publishers.
- m0zg 6y ago
  Amazon is a monopoly on Kindle, which is what the author has issues with. It's sort of like if there was only one manufacturer of a printing press and they forbade you from printing anything they don't like on it. Also, every time a rebuttal starts with "so", the rest is an attempt at mind reading. Those are always unsuccessful.
  - enitihas 6y ago
    > Amazon is a monopoly on Kindle, which is what the author has issues with. This makes no sense. Companies all have monopolies on their own products. Apple has monopoly on the iPad, which is a similar competing reading device. Sony has monopoly on the PlayStation. Microsoft has monopoly on Office and Xbox. Are you suggesting that all companies should give up the ownership of all of their products? There are several competing products to Kindle, like Nook and even iPad (which funnily enough, tried to monopolistically engage in price fixing)

enitihas 6y ago

In what sector is Amazon a monopoly. Retail? Walmart is much larger and Amazon's share of the market is too small to be a monopoly. Ecommerce? Even in ecommerce, Amazon's share is <50%. Fun fact, Tesla has a 60% of electric car market in the US (https://electrek.co/2020/02/04/tesla-electric-car-sales-us-market-share/ https://electrek.co/2020/02/04/tesla-electric-car-sales-us-m...). Does that mean Tesla is a monopoly, and should be broken up?

libertine 6y ago
Honestly this came to me after I've read your reply, and I think you're onto something: Is the 50% market share really necessary to claim who's a monopoly? Maybe it's time to re evaluate the definition of monopoly.
- enitihas 6y ago
  Sure, let's give politicians a stick to break businesses arbitrarily, since we don't like objective criterias. Got a problem with some CEO, cry monopoly and break it up.
  - libertine 6y ago
    I didn't say we shouldn't have criterias. I said that the "50% market share" seems to have flaws. Why not look at market caps? Well, the last monopoly was broken in 1982, isn't odd that since then no other monopoly has ever existed? You currently have monopolies that serve political agendas, that's a better stick I guess.
    - enitihas 6y ago
      What does monopoly have to do with market cap? Market cap is an abstract concept on how much the market values something, and doesn't have much concrete stuff to be based on. Market cap goes way up during bubbles. If companies were to be broken for profits, there are so many companies ahead of Amazon. >Well, the last monopoly was broken in 1982, isn't odd that since then no other monopoly has ever existed? Many monopolies have existed, like Microsoft for the most famous example. But there is no industry in which Amazon is a monopoly. Unless we were playing a witch hunt where we had to create a monopoly by thin air, I don't know what makes Amazon qualify as one.

mandeepj 6y ago

A couple of days ago he tweeted - "off twitter for a while". I knew he'll be back soon. So, there he is. His "while" is very short :-). There's a pattern here. He wants to be in the news actively. So, he picks up one thing or another. If you are not paying for marketing then you have to do it yourself.

kukx 6y ago

Elon is right it is insane. We do not want monopolies. And especially monopolies on information, books. I am not convinced that splitting a company by a government is the best solution, however in this case I do not see any other quick way to restore a balance, well maybe Amazon choosing to immediately stop its censorship policy.