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I'm calling total BS. He should stay to change the system from within. Total waste of hard work to give up now. This is a knee jerk reaction and the poor lamb i

I'm calling total BS. He should stay to change the system from within. Total waste of hard work to give up now. This is a knee jerk reaction and the poor lamb is going to live to regret it. I'm surprised they didn't have him out on his ass the same day and gave him a whole extra week to potentially sabotage the systems. Edit: OK fine. I agree it's totally an uphill struggle and in all fairness it's one we're all fighting. It's one man versus a sea of apathy where all the incentives are geared towards productivity at all costs and bitter disempowerment and ostracism for anyone that steps out of line. I were him I'd go hardcore until they actually fired me i.e. make it hard for them rather than take a gallant bow -- how's that for starters? Whatever happened to fighting for what you believe in? How can you leave all your hard work in the hands of people you no longer trust? I've actually gone all the way up and been fired by a roomful of directors and a vice president for calling out bullshit agile theatre. Part of it rests on everyone's shoulders because I know for sure a lot of people reading this thread right now would jump at the chance to take his place, struggle be damned. Look at what happens to anyone that expresses a dissenting opinion I'd like to see more downvotes just to make sure I'm on the right side of this issue.

jakelazaroff 6y ago
Clearly it's not working though? At some point you need to wake up and realize that efforts to "change the system from within" are futile.
- artsyca 6y ago
  Yea so he's moving to another company for more of the same hoping the issue will never come up again.
cycloptic 6y ago
How many times have people at these companies tried to "manage up" from within and it didn't work? I honestly lost count by now. This will continue as long as there are enablers on the other side who keep offering to foot the bill in exchange for the lion's share of management's attention. I see this quite often. As a rank-and-file employee, there comes a point where a lot of people have to cut their losses and realize that, within whatever their current trajectory is, the chances of becoming a VP or C-level and making a real difference within a reasonable timeframe are slim. I wish it wasn't so, because as you can see, the only option in that situation is to quit.
- artsyca 6y ago
  Totally agree but there are many people there now who could use his help to fight for what they believe in. He's not just one guy trying to get some hair brained initiative passed. Our problem is we seek acceptance and agreement too much and don't fight for what others believe in on principle. We're all to blame but now we have one less person who can do anything about it. Look at the world from the outside in for once and quit suffering your blasted anecdoche. How many times have they tried to manage up only to be hamstringed by their own peers?
  - cycloptic 6y ago
    The peers are all jockeying for the same limited number of promotions. I don't know what the solution is, but protesting won't resolve what is fundamentally a conflict of interest.
    - artsyca 6y ago
      Or perhaps a misalignment of incentives
zepto 6y ago
Can you advise us on how to change such systems from within?
- artsyca 6y ago
  Actually agile is supposed to be a disruptive process that enables upward change but we keep doing it all wrong squeezing features out our asses when we should be making organizational changes. We should all know we're trying to change them and help each other, how else? Tell me you've never tried and failed due to "politics" but have you ever stuck your neck out even a little?
  - zepto 6y ago
    Your last question seems like a personal attack which is against HN guidelines. I was responding to your claim that it was illegitimate to quit in protest, and that people should stay and change organizations from within. Given this belief, I assumed you might have some insight you have about how to do this effectively. Maybe even examples of when it has been done?
    - artsyca 6y ago
      Oh c'mon when someone rage quits in protest these corporations have safeguards in place to prevent rogue actions. I'm surprised they didn't trigger a visit from the thought police given the high profile and instead let a potential bad actor remain on the premises a whole extra week? And yes all our energies should be towards changing the organizations, as systems professionals, rather than competing on "look what I can do" while the world outside our gated communities crumbles.
      - zepto 6y ago
        Can you actually point to a success story in changing an organization from the inside?
        artsyca 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

jakelazaroff 6y ago

Clearly it's not working though? At some point you need to wake up and realize that efforts to "change the system from within" are futile.

artsyca 6y ago
Yea so he's moving to another company for more of the same hoping the issue will never come up again.

cycloptic 6y ago

How many times have people at these companies tried to "manage up" from within and it didn't work? I honestly lost count by now. This will continue as long as there are enablers on the other side who keep offering to foot the bill in exchange for the lion's share of management's attention. I see this quite often. As a rank-and-file employee, there comes a point where a lot of people have to cut their losses and realize that, within whatever their current trajectory is, the chances of becoming a VP or C-level and making a real difference within a reasonable timeframe are slim. I wish it wasn't so, because as you can see, the only option in that situation is to quit.

artsyca 6y ago
Totally agree but there are many people there now who could use his help to fight for what they believe in. He's not just one guy trying to get some hair brained initiative passed. Our problem is we seek acceptance and agreement too much and don't fight for what others believe in on principle. We're all to blame but now we have one less person who can do anything about it. Look at the world from the outside in for once and quit suffering your blasted anecdoche. How many times have they tried to manage up only to be hamstringed by their own peers?
- cycloptic 6y ago
  The peers are all jockeying for the same limited number of promotions. I don't know what the solution is, but protesting won't resolve what is fundamentally a conflict of interest.
  - artsyca 6y ago
    Or perhaps a misalignment of incentives

zepto 6y ago

Can you advise us on how to change such systems from within?

artsyca 6y ago
Actually agile is supposed to be a disruptive process that enables upward change but we keep doing it all wrong squeezing features out our asses when we should be making organizational changes. We should all know we're trying to change them and help each other, how else? Tell me you've never tried and failed due to "politics" but have you ever stuck your neck out even a little?
- zepto 6y ago
  Your last question seems like a personal attack which is against HN guidelines. I was responding to your claim that it was illegitimate to quit in protest, and that people should stay and change organizations from within. Given this belief, I assumed you might have some insight you have about how to do this effectively. Maybe even examples of when it has been done?
  - artsyca 6y ago
    Oh c'mon when someone rage quits in protest these corporations have safeguards in place to prevent rogue actions. I'm surprised they didn't trigger a visit from the thought police given the high profile and instead let a potential bad actor remain on the premises a whole extra week? And yes all our energies should be towards changing the organizations, as systems professionals, rather than competing on "look what I can do" while the world outside our gated communities crumbles.
    - zepto 6y ago
      Can you actually point to a success story in changing an organization from the inside?
      - artsyca 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]