4 ms·

You're on social media

by kiplkipl 6y ago

lizardking 6y ago
And?
- kiplkipl 6y ago
  Then it seems the poster does find some value in social media. I'm saying that HN is social media - descended from Reddit, in fact - to point out that the popular stance of Facebook being inherently evil seems to forgive this website for doing the same thing. This kind of scare has happened with all media: games, TV, film, fiction books. If there's a difference between the fast-food social media and this website, I'd like to hear what it is.
  - 12xo 6y ago
    Well to start forums are a self selecting group of like minded individuals. To be an active member usually requires thought and care, intelligence and skills such as reading comprehension and critical thinking... Oh, and the whole system isnt built to game your senses in order to mine minute data points about you that is then sold to companies who then masquerade their content as ads all while pretending that they're doing good work for the world... But honestly, if you cant tell the difference between Social Media and a forum, maybe you should step away from the net all together. Read some books, learn a hobby. Go outside. Make some real life friends... For it seems as if you too close to the forest to know that its made up of trees. Its just like fast food. If its all you eat, you have no idea what real food tastes and feels like...
    - kiplkipl 6y ago
      Beyond ads, everything I interact with on social media is through choice. I'm aware of how targeted advertising works: it reminds me of seeing toy adverts between children's TV shows. Thank you for the life coaching.
      - 12xo 6y ago
        Oh, sorry. I didnt realize you are super-duper smart. Maybe because your posts are anything but... Or maybe you're just being sarcastic and just not a very good writer... Either way, thanks for contributing. It really makes a difference.
  - karaterobot 6y ago
    You're implying the commenter is hypocritical for being on a social media site while criticizing social media. I don't think that's necessarily true, since all they said was that _too much_ social media was bad for your health, not that any amount was. Even if they spent all their time on social media, their warning against it wouldn't necessarily be hypocritical. If an alcoholic tells you that alcohol is addictive, you should believe them.
    - kiplkipl 6y ago
      I don't think what you have said here is wrong. I do think that judgements about social media are made from the point of view of people who hear about the evils of big (fast food) websites mostly second-hand while wrongly believing they don't participate in it. My understanding is that this website was created was to make YC more famous among the kind of people who would post here. Posts are indexed by search engines and, after some period, undeletable. Like all social media - including all the way back to usenet, before the phrase existed - flaming, high-tensions, and consequences are non-negligible. I've seen someone write a post as an insider that got a reply from their CEO asking them not to do it. The sum of this is that YC's advertising is creating a platform for people to harm their careers. Yet, despite knowing this, I continue to browse because I find value in the content that exceeds the dangers. I imagine others feel the same and hope that, by viewing HN under the same umbrella as Facebook etc., they might not view the negatives as fatal. At least not to the point of demanding other people leave their jobs.
      - karaterobot 6y ago
        Fair point, and well stated.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
ciarannolan 6y ago
https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
- kiplkipl 6y ago
  In this analogy the parent poster would not be seeking to improve society, they'd be seeking to end it.
  - ciarannolan 6y ago
    I don't think that's true. You can eat fast food once in a while and still be very healthy. They're not necessarily advocating for (metaphorically) shutting down all fast food restaurants, just making a point about over-consumption side effects. At least that's how I read it.
    - useruser125524 6y ago
      That's how you read it because that's what they said. Not sure why the original reply felt the need to add "stupid" as "So people love it" makes the same point. Mister Gotcha is probably replying implicitly to the addition of 'stupid' to make a point. Except now that they've stuck their stakes in the ground and are getting defensive, let the pedantic internet slap-fight commence
seesawtron 6y ago
HN is a forum, but very different from places like Facebook and Reddit.
- kiplkipl 6y ago
  If that is a notable categorisation then what is the difference that makes forums better?
  - seesawtron 6y ago
    I feel the trigger of social media is getting dopamine-like reward signal when people like/share your posts. Its underlying acceptance of "you" aspect of it, rather than the idea itself that you share. In a forum, being an anonymous user, it doesn't affect you as much on a personal level which allows for a more rational discussion by detaching the "personal" side of you from it. Of course, that is only true in theory as we are all prone to taking everything personally (myself included) but I try consciously to change that.
    - kiplkipl 6y ago
      This website has rapid interaction from other users and visible upvotes that add up over time to create a personal score that nets you extra benefits. If I worked for Facebook, I'd like stronger evidence than amateur psychology for me to feel morally compelled to give up my livelihood. Edit: furthermore many users post with real or pseudo-real names that reward them with real life social clout.
      - seesawtron 6y ago
        For example, is there any revenue generated from people visiting users' profiles on HN? But there is revenue from ads on Facebook and Instagram profiles that millions subscribe to. There is no "subscription" like cult on this forum (afaik). I do not see content based on whether user has high points or not. Unlike social media, where people with more followers get more visibility. So I think the scoring vs followers is not really comparable. I use adblocker so I do not see ads on HN. Correct me if this is different from your experience. I can imagine, as you point out, the impact on "social life" for users with real/pseudo real names. Back in the day forums were used for anonymous discussions when you would not trust strangers on the internet. I guess now the opposite is trending.
briefcomment 6y ago
I think image based social media is a beast of its own. The emotional swings I get from images far exceeds what I get from text.
BitwiseFool 6y ago
While true, I feel like HN is a different variety of Social Media than Facebook. You're not going to see vacation photos, screenshots of tweets, and memes everywhere. It's a forum yes, but it's very different from places like Facebook and Reddit.
12xo 6y ago
A forum isnt social media unless you define social media as any medium that allows people.... But to play along, I dont eat fast food often, maybe once a year. But I still eat it and afterwards I always say to myself, "how and why do people eat this all the time"....

You're on social media

lizardking 6y ago

And?

kiplkipl 6y ago
Then it seems the poster does find some value in social media. I'm saying that HN is social media - descended from Reddit, in fact - to point out that the popular stance of Facebook being inherently evil seems to forgive this website for doing the same thing. This kind of scare has happened with all media: games, TV, film, fiction books. If there's a difference between the fast-food social media and this website, I'd like to hear what it is.
- 12xo 6y ago
  Well to start forums are a self selecting group of like minded individuals. To be an active member usually requires thought and care, intelligence and skills such as reading comprehension and critical thinking... Oh, and the whole system isnt built to game your senses in order to mine minute data points about you that is then sold to companies who then masquerade their content as ads all while pretending that they're doing good work for the world... But honestly, if you cant tell the difference between Social Media and a forum, maybe you should step away from the net all together. Read some books, learn a hobby. Go outside. Make some real life friends... For it seems as if you too close to the forest to know that its made up of trees. Its just like fast food. If its all you eat, you have no idea what real food tastes and feels like...
  - kiplkipl 6y ago
    Beyond ads, everything I interact with on social media is through choice. I'm aware of how targeted advertising works: it reminds me of seeing toy adverts between children's TV shows. Thank you for the life coaching.
    - 12xo 6y ago
      Oh, sorry. I didnt realize you are super-duper smart. Maybe because your posts are anything but... Or maybe you're just being sarcastic and just not a very good writer... Either way, thanks for contributing. It really makes a difference.
- karaterobot 6y ago
  You're implying the commenter is hypocritical for being on a social media site while criticizing social media. I don't think that's necessarily true, since all they said was that _too much_ social media was bad for your health, not that any amount was. Even if they spent all their time on social media, their warning against it wouldn't necessarily be hypocritical. If an alcoholic tells you that alcohol is addictive, you should believe them.
  - kiplkipl 6y ago
    I don't think what you have said here is wrong. I do think that judgements about social media are made from the point of view of people who hear about the evils of big (fast food) websites mostly second-hand while wrongly believing they don't participate in it. My understanding is that this website was created was to make YC more famous among the kind of people who would post here. Posts are indexed by search engines and, after some period, undeletable. Like all social media - including all the way back to usenet, before the phrase existed - flaming, high-tensions, and consequences are non-negligible. I've seen someone write a post as an insider that got a reply from their CEO asking them not to do it. The sum of this is that YC's advertising is creating a platform for people to harm their careers. Yet, despite knowing this, I continue to browse because I find value in the content that exceeds the dangers. I imagine others feel the same and hope that, by viewing HN under the same umbrella as Facebook etc., they might not view the negatives as fatal. At least not to the point of demanding other people leave their jobs.
    - karaterobot 6y ago
      Fair point, and well stated.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

ciarannolan 6y ago

https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

kiplkipl 6y ago
In this analogy the parent poster would not be seeking to improve society, they'd be seeking to end it.
- ciarannolan 6y ago
  I don't think that's true. You can eat fast food once in a while and still be very healthy. They're not necessarily advocating for (metaphorically) shutting down all fast food restaurants, just making a point about over-consumption side effects. At least that's how I read it.
  - useruser125524 6y ago
    That's how you read it because that's what they said. Not sure why the original reply felt the need to add "stupid" as "So people love it" makes the same point. Mister Gotcha is probably replying implicitly to the addition of 'stupid' to make a point. Except now that they've stuck their stakes in the ground and are getting defensive, let the pedantic internet slap-fight commence

seesawtron 6y ago

HN is a forum, but very different from places like Facebook and Reddit.

kiplkipl 6y ago
If that is a notable categorisation then what is the difference that makes forums better?
- seesawtron 6y ago
  I feel the trigger of social media is getting dopamine-like reward signal when people like/share your posts. Its underlying acceptance of "you" aspect of it, rather than the idea itself that you share. In a forum, being an anonymous user, it doesn't affect you as much on a personal level which allows for a more rational discussion by detaching the "personal" side of you from it. Of course, that is only true in theory as we are all prone to taking everything personally (myself included) but I try consciously to change that.
  - kiplkipl 6y ago
    This website has rapid interaction from other users and visible upvotes that add up over time to create a personal score that nets you extra benefits. If I worked for Facebook, I'd like stronger evidence than amateur psychology for me to feel morally compelled to give up my livelihood. Edit: furthermore many users post with real or pseudo-real names that reward them with real life social clout.
    - seesawtron 6y ago
      For example, is there any revenue generated from people visiting users' profiles on HN? But there is revenue from ads on Facebook and Instagram profiles that millions subscribe to. There is no "subscription" like cult on this forum (afaik). I do not see content based on whether user has high points or not. Unlike social media, where people with more followers get more visibility. So I think the scoring vs followers is not really comparable. I use adblocker so I do not see ads on HN. Correct me if this is different from your experience. I can imagine, as you point out, the impact on "social life" for users with real/pseudo real names. Back in the day forums were used for anonymous discussions when you would not trust strangers on the internet. I guess now the opposite is trending.

briefcomment 6y ago

I think image based social media is a beast of its own. The emotional swings I get from images far exceeds what I get from text.

BitwiseFool 6y ago

While true, I feel like HN is a different variety of Social Media than Facebook. You're not going to see vacation photos, screenshots of tweets, and memes everywhere. It's a forum yes, but it's very different from places like Facebook and Reddit.

12xo 6y ago

A forum isnt social media unless you define social media as any medium that allows people.... But to play along, I dont eat fast food often, maybe once a year. But I still eat it and afterwards I always say to myself, "how and why do people eat this all the time"....