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GM plans electric van for business users
- williesleg 6y agoOn they will win! Tesla, I mean. GM is too old school. Kindof like "hacker news" I wish they would stick to hacker news. All this globalist bullshit makes us all want to hurl.
- knorker 6y agoLess talking and more building, please. Even if Tesla doesn't win the EV war, its legacy will always be getting us into it. Future generations will thank them.
- clouddrover 6y ago> Even if Tesla doesn't win the EV war There is no EV war. There are only car companies selling cars.
- bdamm 6y agoSee: Browser wars, desktop wars, battle of the search engines. Domination of a market is often referred to as war.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- OrangeMango 6y ago> Less talking and more building, please. For GM and Ford, building the vehicle is the easy part. At this point, they all know how to build an electric vehicle. They definitely need to do a lot more talking. They need to normalize the idea. They need the buyers to believe that it's better. These are commercial vehicles, they need to have a lower cost of operation. And buyers have to believe it. So keep talking (and also build them).
- flmlta 6y agoMany consumers believe it's better but can't afford the price of an EV even after incentives. We don't need more talk, we need better prices. Sub 30k crossovers/hatchbacks is what consumers are buying in droves. These markets aren't exactly flush with EVs or even hybrids.
- hedora 6y agoThose people can’t afford new cars. They probably could afford an LPG conversion kit. Such kits are widely available outside the US, and are a good stopgap technology to reduce CO2 emissions between now and when the fleet is 100% electric.
- flmlta 6y agoPlenty of people can afford new cars, just not necessarily expensive ones. The average price of a new vehicle in the united states is around 35k, but the average price of an electric vehicle is closer to 50k. If you want the average person to be buying an EV, the price needs to come down. It should also be mentioned that loan terms for new vehicles are insane right now which is partially why the average price of new cars is so high - GM is offering 84 month, 0% loans on its trucks - today!
- mattlondon 6y agoAlso they need to invest in installing a decent charging network, like Tesla has. Often in the UK you'll see 10 or more Tesla rapid chargers with 200+kw charging rates at key locations, then for everyone else there are perhaps just two 50kw chargers which are either ice'd or broken or both. Until people see rapid chargers they can actually use in most supermarket and shopping mall's car parks etc it is going to be a hard-sell. We're getting there slowly with things like Ionity, but it is still a rarity to see decent rapid chargers in convenient & plentiful locations. Of course, for commercial operators this wont be a concern. but for the average joe who doesn't have off-street parking at home then they need a reliable place to refuel.
- michaelt 6y ago
- csours 6y agoDisclaimer: I work for GM, anything stated here is solely my own opinion. I think competition is a great thing. There would be no Tesla without the EV1 (at least not as we know Tesla today). Likewise there would be no Volt PHEV without Tesla, no Bolt EV (My own opinion only). My point is, the market reacts to what is put out there. There is almost no case where you can find a car without parallel from another company. You can certainly find better and worse, cheaper and more expensive, greater or fewer features, etc; but rarely does the market leave the field open for one player to run wild.
- gkfasdfasdf 6y ago> There would be no Tesla without the EV1 (at least not as we know Tesla today). Can you elaborate on that? How did the EV1 influence Tesla?
- clouddrover 6y agoThe EV1 had a few industry leading features: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t22D4aUs0iw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t22D4aUs0iw https://www.motortrend.com/news/general-motors-ev1/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/general-motors-ev1/ For example, the EV1 had a heat-pump. Tesla only got around to that with the Model Y.
- cptskippy 6y agoUsing a heat-pump in a vehicle isn't a revolutionary idea, it was just unnecessary as most ICEV can scavenge waste heat from the ICE. Limited adoption in EVs and PHEVs has largely been due to limited availability as there weren't any commercial adaptations for vehicles. Toyota and Nissan have been using heat-pumps for a while now though.
- clouddrover 6y ago> Using a heat-pump in a vehicle isn't a revolutionary idea Ah, so it's even worse that Tesla didn't implement it earlier.
- gpm 6y agoSo this is an example of "Anxiety Driven Development", the current post on the top of the front page, right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23415922 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23415922
- lebuffon 6y agoElectric commercial vans are such an obvious use case with real benefits. I am amazed it took so long. Spoke to a UPS driver who complained about his truck having a ~150 mile range on propane. That's a crime. With regen braking in a stop and start job it's electric for the win. There might even be the possibility to extend the range a percent or two with solar on that big van roof. It's not much, but try extracting gasoline from the sky.
- londons_explore 6y agoRegen braking isn't yet good enough for most "stop-start" applications. It turns out that unless you make big adapations to your driving style, typical braking generates too much energy too quickly to be able to charge the batteries. We'd need a breakthrough in battery technology, or some improved supercapacitors, or productionization of flywheels, to be able to take advantage of that energy.
- goodcanadian 6y agoI'm surprised. I haven't studied this in detail, of course, but regen braking seems to work fine on my Leaf. There is a(n annoyingly) noticeable transition from regen to mechanical braking. The vast majority of the time, it is using regen.
- mikepurvis 6y agoYou may be getting stopping power, but the issue is whether you're stopping gradually enough for a meaningful amount of that power to actually be captured in the battery vs. dumped to the environment as heat. I notice this on my electric longboard as well— longer, more gradual brake actions are way, way better for range than stopping more aggressively. I think to get the power from more sudden stops, you'd need to have some kind of intermediate storage (like a capacitor bank) that could hold that energy for 20-30 seconds while it's streamed at the appropriate rate back into the main battery.
- skykooler 6y ago
- sgt 6y agoGM should just attempt a merger with Tesla. Not possible now, but in a year or two it might.
- jp555 6y agoThe question required to justify a merger instead of partnership: Why would merging make things greater than the sum of the parts? If it doesn't, partner. I dont see any reason why a GM-Tesla merger makes any sense. But would be happy to hear some.
- marvin 6y agoI thing sgt is alluding to the fact that if Tesla hits an internal economic crisis, its stock price could fall far enough that one of the established automakers could acquire it or merge. And that this would be in their best interest, as Tesla now obviously has a significant lead in EV development and deployment. But this is contingent on Tesla losing its current trajectory. There would be no incentive for Tesla shareholders to do such a merger the way things look today.
- hedora 6y agoActually, it probably makes sense for GM, in the same way that the AOL - Time Warner merger made sense for AOL. GM’s core businesses is threatened by technological change. They might not be around in ten years. Batteries and self driving cars are a big threat, of course. However, Detroit can probably catch up on those, eventually. Factory direct sales and service (i.e., “the internet”) are the bigger long term threats, and are ones that GM is contractually forbidden to address. Also, they’ve had 20 years to adapt, and have clearly failed to do so. There’s no reason to expect that to change. That gives Tesla a sustainable advantage. I’d certainly pay a premium for a car if it meant bypassing the local dealerships’ service counters.
- JeffL 6y agoWhat advantage would Tesla gain picking up all the dead weight that GM has, with its dealerships, unions, pensions, and huge factories dedicated to building ICE's?
- martythemaniak 6y agoI've been wondering how far away Tesla is from a commercial van. The CyberTruck gets a lot of attention and it's been noted that it makes no sense outside of North America. Except, vehicles with those dimensions and cargo capacity are very widely used outside of NA, they're just covered and called vans. I don't think the CyberTruck could be converted to a van (the glass seems too sloped and the first row too far back), but it seems that when they complete the truck a van program could borrow very heavily. Imagine they keep the battery capacity, stainless steel exoskeleton design, hauling and carrying capacity, but have a design that has the glass much more vertical, one row closer to the front and a very tall, boxy back. It would sell very well.
- prawn 6y agoThey should do an electric version of the Ford chassis in the USA that often gets converted into buses. E450 and so on. Could easily be flexible enough to work for buses, vanlife conversions, minivans, etc.
- cptskippy 6y agoThe Cybertruck strikes me as a way to scale up materials/technology used at SpaceX to bring down their cost for SpaceX. It very much strikes me as a niche product like the Chevy SSR and not meant to be mainstream like a GMC Sierra or Ford F-150.
- sremani 6y agoIt is evident the lower trims of Cybertruck are not tow friendly. But there are lot of people with pick-ups who do not tow, but need a truck bed to carry tools or goods etc.
- cptskippy 6y agoHonestly I feel like the high trim versions will be the more popular ones for the people who own a truck for image. Those are the people buying the luxury $80k+ Sierras and F-150s.
- 6y ago
- zwirbl 6y agoThe Deutsche Post founded a company which develops and also sells electric vans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter
- _Microft 6y agoUnfortunately they stopped producing StreetScooters this year and will only service the existing fleet in the future. What a pity.
- rsynnott 6y agoI think they just shifted to using third-party electric vans. I see electric DHL vans around in Ireland, but they're made by Peugeot or someone.
- speedgoose 6y agoShould we tell them about the electric vans that we have in Europe for years? Like the Nissan e-ev200 and the Renault Kangoo ZE. Or the PSA vans planned for this year?
- dahfizz 6y agoNobody in America is going to buy an electric van with only ~100 miles of range that accelerates slower than a comparable gas van.
- speedgoose 6y agoThese vans don't sell to people doing road trips while sleeping inside. They are for municipalities, local companies, and post deliveries. I don't think it's a lot different in America but I may be wrong.
- hedora 6y agoIt’s the same in the US. We’ve had custom low volume hybrid electric busses and delivery vehicles for at least a decade. Many municipalities buy electric golf cart things for road and part maintenance, electric traffic enforcement trikes, and electric police motorcycles.
- rsynnott 6y agoThey might be _less_ appealing in the US, as the US has fewer dense cities, but the US _does_ have dense cities, and these would presumably fit the same package delivery van niche in those that they do in European cities.
- danans 6y agoWould be awesome to see one of these converted into a camper-van/RV, with solar array on roof to charge while parked for days. EV delivery trucks would be a great platform for this because of the space reclaimed from ICE. The same camper EV idea is behind VW's awesome looking "ID Buzz" concept, which alas, has been stuck in concept mode forever.
- caiobegotti 6y agoBig auto companies plan a lot and send away press releases about electric concepts a lot too. It's been like that for the past decade, at least. They should start building and selling, then I will believe them again.
- fortran77 6y agoGM has a lot of experience with electric cars. We have had GM Bolts and Volts and have been very satisfied with them. I wouldn't discount their ability so fast.
- ogre_codes 6y agoGM has made far more announcements about electric cars than actual shipping products and their track record with shipping what they say they are going to ship is not great. For example the Chevy Volt only marginally resembles the Volt prototype. Also, the fact that GM has continued to lobby for laxer CAFE standards and is in a legal battle over California's right to set higher fuel economy standards is a big black mark against them in my book.
- Shivetya 6y agoA lot of experience has not translated well to their consumer offerings which have not really changed since the rushed the Bolt as a 2017 model. The EUV variant instead of advancing the technology of the Bolt is little more than a stretched variant with the same limited charging. Yes they have experience but GM is operating from the concept of earning sufficient ZEV credits only. The dropped PHEV (Volt) right prior to the rest of the industry going that direction all because it wasn't worth the cost to ZEV points. What I am interested in is seeing how invested Ford is, if the Mach E sales take off will they make enough to meet the need to artificially constrain production to just what they need to sale. The real danger to EV transportation is the big manufacturers trying to keep maximum ranges below three hundred miles. Even luxury makers are barely going there with future products. By keeping ranges in that lower two hundred mile area they can continue to exploit range anxiety issues and consign EVs to local transportation only thereby not threatening their cash cows.
- datavirtue 6y agoHurry! Ford is releasing electric fleet vans. Someone issue a press release!
- partingshots 6y agoSeems like Tesla is in for a whole host of trouble with this loss of the enterprise / business market.
- pengaru 6y agoIt'd be neat if GM rebooted the Motorhome [0] as an EV, or maybe a plug-in hybrid. Hell even if they just took the original FWD ICE platform adding a skateboard full of batteries with RWD electric, cover the roof with solar panels, it'd make an interesting plug-in electric hybrid. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_motorhome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_motorhome
- Gibbon1 6y agoMotorhomes are kind of interesting. If you look at the price of a new one it wouldn't be hard to hide the cost of a 150kwhr battery in the price tag. And likely you could run everything off solar panels on the roof.