4 ms·

Do delivery cars, scooters, trucks not produce noise? Is this a complaint about delivery drones or delivery? Tracking technology will always be at our fingertip

by dmos62 6y ago

Do delivery cars, scooters, trucks not produce noise? Is this a complaint about delivery drones or delivery? Tracking technology will always be at our fingertips. I don't think you'd want a world where that wasn't true. It's governmental regulation that's the answer to large scale abuse.

OrangeMango 6y ago
> Do delivery cars, scooters, trucks not produce noise? There are a lot of existing laws about aircraft noise that cars, trucks and scooters don't need to worry about. And once you reach a certain number of takeoffs and landings your "airport" falls under additional regulations that require things like permanent noise monitoring and paying money for noise abatement for nearby property owners. In my state, any citizen can file a public nuisance suit for unreasonable noise that interferes with quality of life. With trucks, cars and scooters it is perhaps a little difficult to track and attribute noise sources. One company making thousands of drone deliveries makes for a very easy target.
- mattkrause 6y ago
  And there are separate laws for cars and truck noise too. * California limits exhaust noise to 95 dBa: http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ * Colorado has a subjective standard "prevent any excessive or unusual noise" https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-42/regulation-of-vehicles-and-traffic/article-4/part-2/section-42-4-225/ https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-42/regulati... * Connecticut has a pretty complicated scheme depending on the vehicle's weight and age, as well as the road surface: https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0205.htm https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0205.htm * Delaware has a subjective standard: "muffler in good working order and in accordance with manufacturer's specifications and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise." https://law.justia.com/codes/delaware/2015/title-21/chapter-43/subchapter-i/section-4311/ https://law.justia.com/codes/delaware/2015/title-21/chapter-... There are, of course, laws about other sources of noise too. Ask any college kid.
  - hooloovoo_zoo 6y ago
    * California limits exhaust noise to 95 dBa: http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ The level of enforcement for this has to be something like zero....
leetcrew 6y ago
drones make a much more annoying sound than most vehicles. closest comparison I can think of is a dirtbike. imagine how irritating it would be if deliveries were made via dirtbike at scale.
adrianN 6y ago
A delivery truck can transport half a dozen cubic meters or hundreds of kilograms of packages with ease. Replacing it with drones increases the noise level quite a bit.
- dmos62 6y ago
  What about an Uber Eats scooter? Also, a drone can be a last mile delivery method, where the very heavy truck ends up doing relatively long runs for single small packages.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    Instead of replacing Uber Eats scooters with even louder drones, how about we replace them with silent eletric scooters, or bicycles? This can be done today, without any new technology or additional safety concerns.
    - einpoklum 6y ago
      How about we replace these sctooers with local eateries/restaurants/cafeterias which you walk to, meet people at, and eat locally-produced, locally-sourced food?
      - adrianN 6y ago
        I'd be in favor, but that seems a lot harder than buying electric scooters.
      - thatfunkymunki 6y ago
        Somehow I think demolishing the suburbs is somewhat out of scope for this discussion
      - Nasrudith 6y ago
        Trust me people would complain far more about the smell of local micronranches and micro farms, even ignoring the economics involved.
mlaX 6y ago
> I don't think you'd want a world where that wasn't true. Again, I'm speechless at the level of indoctrination. It is for my own good! I'll be working on my next business idea. A shower head with an invisible camera that streams to the manufacturer for the protection of the shower user. After all, he might slip and the device could call an ambulance. The shower head could monitor if the user is overweight and send some weight-loss ads. It is for the user's own good! Also, I'll make it opt-out, and the opt-out process will be in a shrink wrap license. It is all for our own good!
- gindely 6y ago
  > Also, I'll make it opt-out, and the opt-out process will be in a shrink wrap license. I do not understand this point.
  - winkeltripel 6y ago
    It's the idea that you can opt out, but the process is not simple or advertised. It will probably involve a notary, registered post and a fax of your government-issued ID.
- dmos62 6y ago
  You're too quick on the trigger. Going from a smart device to a smart device that tracks is technologically trivial. If you consider that the problem, you'll end up retreating to the 1800s. That's why I said that surveillance will always be "at our fingertips". I don't think that mass surveillance is for our own good. Why would I call it abuse if I though it were?
  - glacyx 6y ago
    It would be going back to the period of 1995-2005. IoT devices are often evil, and I would no longer be surprised if anyone took the above business "idea" as a manual and went ahead with it. It would have been unthinkable 20 years ago, and those were better times in that respect (and many others).
de_watcher 6y ago
Non-electric scooters should be banned. Or especially the dirt bikes in the city.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  I tend to agree. Those little two-cycle scooters howling down the road at like 110dB are just terrible. Way beyond any reasonable definition of acceptable.
- outworlder 6y ago
  They generate more pollution than a pickup truck. As do gas lawnmowers for that matter.
mattkrause 6y ago
Regulation of the commons is pretty essential: it's not really feasible to "buy" silence in public places. As for cars and trucks, the noise they produce is regulated in about half of the US: https://www.semasan.com/resources/exhaust-noise-laws-state https://www.semasan.com/resources/exhaust-noise-laws-state

by dmos62 6y ago

OrangeMango 6y ago

> Do delivery cars, scooters, trucks not produce noise? There are a lot of existing laws about aircraft noise that cars, trucks and scooters don't need to worry about. And once you reach a certain number of takeoffs and landings your "airport" falls under additional regulations that require things like permanent noise monitoring and paying money for noise abatement for nearby property owners. In my state, any citizen can file a public nuisance suit for unreasonable noise that interferes with quality of life. With trucks, cars and scooters it is perhaps a little difficult to track and attribute noise sources. One company making thousands of drone deliveries makes for a very easy target.

mattkrause 6y ago
And there are separate laws for cars and truck noise too. * California limits exhaust noise to 95 dBa: http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ * Colorado has a subjective standard "prevent any excessive or unusual noise" https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-42/regulation-of-vehicles-and-traffic/article-4/part-2/section-42-4-225/ https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-42/regulati... * Connecticut has a pretty complicated scheme depending on the vehicle's weight and age, as well as the road surface: https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0205.htm https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0205.htm * Delaware has a subjective standard: "muffler in good working order and in accordance with manufacturer's specifications and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise." https://law.justia.com/codes/delaware/2015/title-21/chapter-43/subchapter-i/section-4311/ https://law.justia.com/codes/delaware/2015/title-21/chapter-... There are, of course, laws about other sources of noise too. Ask any college kid.
- hooloovoo_zoo 6y ago
  * California limits exhaust noise to 95 dBa: http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ The level of enforcement for this has to be something like zero....

leetcrew 6y ago

drones make a much more annoying sound than most vehicles. closest comparison I can think of is a dirtbike. imagine how irritating it would be if deliveries were made via dirtbike at scale.

adrianN 6y ago

A delivery truck can transport half a dozen cubic meters or hundreds of kilograms of packages with ease. Replacing it with drones increases the noise level quite a bit.

dmos62 6y ago
What about an Uber Eats scooter? Also, a drone can be a last mile delivery method, where the very heavy truck ends up doing relatively long runs for single small packages.
- adrianN 6y ago
  Instead of replacing Uber Eats scooters with even louder drones, how about we replace them with silent eletric scooters, or bicycles? This can be done today, without any new technology or additional safety concerns.
  - einpoklum 6y ago
    How about we replace these sctooers with local eateries/restaurants/cafeterias which you walk to, meet people at, and eat locally-produced, locally-sourced food?
    - adrianN 6y ago
      I'd be in favor, but that seems a lot harder than buying electric scooters.
    - thatfunkymunki 6y ago
      Somehow I think demolishing the suburbs is somewhat out of scope for this discussion
    - Nasrudith 6y ago
      Trust me people would complain far more about the smell of local micronranches and micro farms, even ignoring the economics involved.

mlaX 6y ago

> I don't think you'd want a world where that wasn't true. Again, I'm speechless at the level of indoctrination. It is for my own good! I'll be working on my next business idea. A shower head with an invisible camera that streams to the manufacturer for the protection of the shower user. After all, he might slip and the device could call an ambulance. The shower head could monitor if the user is overweight and send some weight-loss ads. It is for the user's own good! Also, I'll make it opt-out, and the opt-out process will be in a shrink wrap license. It is all for our own good!

gindely 6y ago
> Also, I'll make it opt-out, and the opt-out process will be in a shrink wrap license. I do not understand this point.
- winkeltripel 6y ago
  It's the idea that you can opt out, but the process is not simple or advertised. It will probably involve a notary, registered post and a fax of your government-issued ID.
dmos62 6y ago
You're too quick on the trigger. Going from a smart device to a smart device that tracks is technologically trivial. If you consider that the problem, you'll end up retreating to the 1800s. That's why I said that surveillance will always be "at our fingertips". I don't think that mass surveillance is for our own good. Why would I call it abuse if I though it were?
- glacyx 6y ago
  It would be going back to the period of 1995-2005. IoT devices are often evil, and I would no longer be surprised if anyone took the above business "idea" as a manual and went ahead with it. It would have been unthinkable 20 years ago, and those were better times in that respect (and many others).

de_watcher 6y ago

Non-electric scooters should be banned. Or especially the dirt bikes in the city.

rootusrootus 6y ago
I tend to agree. Those little two-cycle scooters howling down the road at like 110dB are just terrible. Way beyond any reasonable definition of acceptable.
outworlder 6y ago
They generate more pollution than a pickup truck. As do gas lawnmowers for that matter.

mattkrause 6y ago

Regulation of the commons is pretty essential: it's not really feasible to "buy" silence in public places. As for cars and trucks, the noise they produce is regulated in about half of the US: https://www.semasan.com/resources/exhaust-noise-laws-state https://www.semasan.com/resources/exhaust-noise-laws-state