4 ms·

Why does the leisure class get funding for this nonsense? An y new "invention" either seems to spy on people or annoy the hell out of them. Drones are a visual

by abuk11 6y ago

Why does the leisure class get funding for this nonsense? An y new "invention" either seems to spy on people or annoy the hell out of them. Drones are a visual nuisance and produce noise. Do you want to disturb bus riders and residential areas. The Silicon Valley episode where a Stanford lab produced a robotic deer that is completely useless but caused a road accident is reality. I hope people will react like Erlich Bachman when these drones become a thing.

avs733 6y ago
and commodify and exploit social resources for profit?
dmos62 6y ago
Do delivery cars, scooters, trucks not produce noise? Is this a complaint about delivery drones or delivery? Tracking technology will always be at our fingertips. I don't think you'd want a world where that wasn't true. It's governmental regulation that's the answer to large scale abuse.
- OrangeMango 6y ago
  > Do delivery cars, scooters, trucks not produce noise? There are a lot of existing laws about aircraft noise that cars, trucks and scooters don't need to worry about. And once you reach a certain number of takeoffs and landings your "airport" falls under additional regulations that require things like permanent noise monitoring and paying money for noise abatement for nearby property owners. In my state, any citizen can file a public nuisance suit for unreasonable noise that interferes with quality of life. With trucks, cars and scooters it is perhaps a little difficult to track and attribute noise sources. One company making thousands of drone deliveries makes for a very easy target.
  - mattkrause 6y ago
    And there are separate laws for cars and truck noise too. * California limits exhaust noise to 95 dBa: http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ * Colorado has a subjective standard "prevent any excessive or unusual noise" https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-42/regulation-of-vehicles-and-traffic/article-4/part-2/section-42-4-225/ https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-42/regulati... * Connecticut has a pretty complicated scheme depending on the vehicle's weight and age, as well as the road surface: https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0205.htm https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0205.htm * Delaware has a subjective standard: "muffler in good working order and in accordance with manufacturer's specifications and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise." https://law.justia.com/codes/delaware/2015/title-21/chapter-43/subchapter-i/section-4311/ https://law.justia.com/codes/delaware/2015/title-21/chapter-... There are, of course, laws about other sources of noise too. Ask any college kid.
    - hooloovoo_zoo 6y ago
      * California limits exhaust noise to 95 dBa: http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ The level of enforcement for this has to be something like zero....
- leetcrew 6y ago
  drones make a much more annoying sound than most vehicles. closest comparison I can think of is a dirtbike. imagine how irritating it would be if deliveries were made via dirtbike at scale.
- adrianN 6y ago
  A delivery truck can transport half a dozen cubic meters or hundreds of kilograms of packages with ease. Replacing it with drones increases the noise level quite a bit.
  - dmos62 6y ago
    What about an Uber Eats scooter? Also, a drone can be a last mile delivery method, where the very heavy truck ends up doing relatively long runs for single small packages.
    - adrianN 6y ago
      Instead of replacing Uber Eats scooters with even louder drones, how about we replace them with silent eletric scooters, or bicycles? This can be done today, without any new technology or additional safety concerns.
      - einpoklum 6y ago
        How about we replace these sctooers with local eateries/restaurants/cafeterias which you walk to, meet people at, and eat locally-produced, locally-sourced food?
        adrianN 6y ago
        I'd be in favor, but that seems a lot harder than buying electric scooters.
        thatfunkymunki 6y ago
        Somehow I think demolishing the suburbs is somewhat out of scope for this discussion
        Nasrudith 6y ago
        Trust me people would complain far more about the smell of local micronranches and micro farms, even ignoring the economics involved.
- mlaX 6y ago
  > I don't think you'd want a world where that wasn't true. Again, I'm speechless at the level of indoctrination. It is for my own good! I'll be working on my next business idea. A shower head with an invisible camera that streams to the manufacturer for the protection of the shower user. After all, he might slip and the device could call an ambulance. The shower head could monitor if the user is overweight and send some weight-loss ads. It is for the user's own good! Also, I'll make it opt-out, and the opt-out process will be in a shrink wrap license. It is all for our own good!
  - gindely 6y ago
    > Also, I'll make it opt-out, and the opt-out process will be in a shrink wrap license. I do not understand this point.
    - winkeltripel 6y ago
      It's the idea that you can opt out, but the process is not simple or advertised. It will probably involve a notary, registered post and a fax of your government-issued ID.
  - dmos62 6y ago
    You're too quick on the trigger. Going from a smart device to a smart device that tracks is technologically trivial. If you consider that the problem, you'll end up retreating to the 1800s. That's why I said that surveillance will always be "at our fingertips". I don't think that mass surveillance is for our own good. Why would I call it abuse if I though it were?
    - glacyx 6y ago
      It would be going back to the period of 1995-2005. IoT devices are often evil, and I would no longer be surprised if anyone took the above business "idea" as a manual and went ahead with it. It would have been unthinkable 20 years ago, and those were better times in that respect (and many others).
- de_watcher 6y ago
  Non-electric scooters should be banned. Or especially the dirt bikes in the city.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    I tend to agree. Those little two-cycle scooters howling down the road at like 110dB are just terrible. Way beyond any reasonable definition of acceptable.
  - outworlder 6y ago
    They generate more pollution than a pickup truck. As do gas lawnmowers for that matter.
- mattkrause 6y ago
  Regulation of the commons is pretty essential: it's not really feasible to "buy" silence in public places. As for cars and trucks, the noise they produce is regulated in about half of the US: https://www.semasan.com/resources/exhaust-noise-laws-state https://www.semasan.com/resources/exhaust-noise-laws-state
Drakar1903 6y ago
Today's useless robot deer is tomorrow's mountain rescue robot. Skepticism is healthy in moderation.
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  Counterpoint: Yesterday's useless robotic dog [0] is... today's useless robotic dog [1]. I've been working on various autonomous robotic technologies long enough with no visible progress that it's starting to feel like vaporware to me. It's too early to make the prediction with certainty, but I won't be at all surprised if 20 years from now "autonomous delivery drone" is right up there with flying cars and nuclear fusion on the "20 more years" shelf. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog [1]: https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
  Relevant xkcd: https://m.xkcd.com/2128/ https://m.xkcd.com/2128/
C1sc0cat 6y ago
That's all right you just pass some new red flag laws.
BurningFrog 6y ago
> Drones are a visual nuisance and produce noise. If the standard is that new inventions must be invisible and inaudible, I don't see a lot of innovation in the future.
- stanfordkid 6y ago
  Have you ever lived next to a subway? This sort of black and white thinking is insanely reductionist
  - BurningFrog 6y ago
    I live 300ft from a major freeway. There is always background noise here. But I don't think my housing situation is that relevant for the issue. I'm not smart enough to know what makes me "reductionist".
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      That's the noise stress dumbing you down... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise (scnr)
asdfman123 6y ago
Easy: because every so often one of those new inventions become multi-billion dollar industries. Some techs suck because they just need refinement/people aren't used to them, and some are just bad ideas. It's hard to tell in advance so people bet on all sorts of things.
supernova87a 6y ago
Isn't this a perennial complaint? Didn't the invention of cell phones come to pollute our lives with more noise than ever before? Yet we tolerated it, because of the benefits and desire of people to use them. Every technology goes through a period of societal decision whether to tolerate the downsides (even very broadly distributed, vague downsides) compared to the benefits created.

by abuk11 6y ago

avs733 6y ago

and commodify and exploit social resources for profit?

dmos62 6y ago

Do delivery cars, scooters, trucks not produce noise? Is this a complaint about delivery drones or delivery? Tracking technology will always be at our fingertips. I don't think you'd want a world where that wasn't true. It's governmental regulation that's the answer to large scale abuse.

OrangeMango 6y ago
> Do delivery cars, scooters, trucks not produce noise? There are a lot of existing laws about aircraft noise that cars, trucks and scooters don't need to worry about. And once you reach a certain number of takeoffs and landings your "airport" falls under additional regulations that require things like permanent noise monitoring and paying money for noise abatement for nearby property owners. In my state, any citizen can file a public nuisance suit for unreasonable noise that interferes with quality of life. With trucks, cars and scooters it is perhaps a little difficult to track and attribute noise sources. One company making thousands of drone deliveries makes for a very easy target.
- mattkrause 6y ago
  And there are separate laws for cars and truck noise too. * California limits exhaust noise to 95 dBa: http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ * Colorado has a subjective standard "prevent any excessive or unusual noise" https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-42/regulation-of-vehicles-and-traffic/article-4/part-2/section-42-4-225/ https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-42/regulati... * Connecticut has a pretty complicated scheme depending on the vehicle's weight and age, as well as the road surface: https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0205.htm https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0205.htm * Delaware has a subjective standard: "muffler in good working order and in accordance with manufacturer's specifications and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise." https://law.justia.com/codes/delaware/2015/title-21/chapter-43/subchapter-i/section-4311/ https://law.justia.com/codes/delaware/2015/title-21/chapter-... There are, of course, laws about other sources of noise too. Ask any college kid.
  - hooloovoo_zoo 6y ago
    * California limits exhaust noise to 95 dBa: http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ http://www.californiacarlaws.com/exhaust-noise/ The level of enforcement for this has to be something like zero....
leetcrew 6y ago
drones make a much more annoying sound than most vehicles. closest comparison I can think of is a dirtbike. imagine how irritating it would be if deliveries were made via dirtbike at scale.
adrianN 6y ago
A delivery truck can transport half a dozen cubic meters or hundreds of kilograms of packages with ease. Replacing it with drones increases the noise level quite a bit.
- dmos62 6y ago
  What about an Uber Eats scooter? Also, a drone can be a last mile delivery method, where the very heavy truck ends up doing relatively long runs for single small packages.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    Instead of replacing Uber Eats scooters with even louder drones, how about we replace them with silent eletric scooters, or bicycles? This can be done today, without any new technology or additional safety concerns.
    - einpoklum 6y ago
      How about we replace these sctooers with local eateries/restaurants/cafeterias which you walk to, meet people at, and eat locally-produced, locally-sourced food?
      - adrianN 6y ago
        I'd be in favor, but that seems a lot harder than buying electric scooters.
      - thatfunkymunki 6y ago
        Somehow I think demolishing the suburbs is somewhat out of scope for this discussion
      - Nasrudith 6y ago
        Trust me people would complain far more about the smell of local micronranches and micro farms, even ignoring the economics involved.
mlaX 6y ago
> I don't think you'd want a world where that wasn't true. Again, I'm speechless at the level of indoctrination. It is for my own good! I'll be working on my next business idea. A shower head with an invisible camera that streams to the manufacturer for the protection of the shower user. After all, he might slip and the device could call an ambulance. The shower head could monitor if the user is overweight and send some weight-loss ads. It is for the user's own good! Also, I'll make it opt-out, and the opt-out process will be in a shrink wrap license. It is all for our own good!
- gindely 6y ago
  > Also, I'll make it opt-out, and the opt-out process will be in a shrink wrap license. I do not understand this point.
  - winkeltripel 6y ago
    It's the idea that you can opt out, but the process is not simple or advertised. It will probably involve a notary, registered post and a fax of your government-issued ID.
- dmos62 6y ago
  You're too quick on the trigger. Going from a smart device to a smart device that tracks is technologically trivial. If you consider that the problem, you'll end up retreating to the 1800s. That's why I said that surveillance will always be "at our fingertips". I don't think that mass surveillance is for our own good. Why would I call it abuse if I though it were?
  - glacyx 6y ago
    It would be going back to the period of 1995-2005. IoT devices are often evil, and I would no longer be surprised if anyone took the above business "idea" as a manual and went ahead with it. It would have been unthinkable 20 years ago, and those were better times in that respect (and many others).
de_watcher 6y ago
Non-electric scooters should be banned. Or especially the dirt bikes in the city.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  I tend to agree. Those little two-cycle scooters howling down the road at like 110dB are just terrible. Way beyond any reasonable definition of acceptable.
- outworlder 6y ago
  They generate more pollution than a pickup truck. As do gas lawnmowers for that matter.
mattkrause 6y ago
Regulation of the commons is pretty essential: it's not really feasible to "buy" silence in public places. As for cars and trucks, the noise they produce is regulated in about half of the US: https://www.semasan.com/resources/exhaust-noise-laws-state https://www.semasan.com/resources/exhaust-noise-laws-state

Drakar1903 6y ago

Today's useless robot deer is tomorrow's mountain rescue robot. Skepticism is healthy in moderation.

0xffff2 6y ago
Counterpoint: Yesterday's useless robotic dog [0] is... today's useless robotic dog [1]. I've been working on various autonomous robotic technologies long enough with no visible progress that it's starting to feel like vaporware to me. It's too early to make the prediction with certainty, but I won't be at all surprised if 20 years from now "autonomous delivery drone" is right up there with flying cars and nuclear fusion on the "20 more years" shelf. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog [1]: https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
Relevant xkcd: https://m.xkcd.com/2128/ https://m.xkcd.com/2128/

C1sc0cat 6y ago

That's all right you just pass some new red flag laws.

BurningFrog 6y ago

> Drones are a visual nuisance and produce noise. If the standard is that new inventions must be invisible and inaudible, I don't see a lot of innovation in the future.

stanfordkid 6y ago
Have you ever lived next to a subway? This sort of black and white thinking is insanely reductionist
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  I live 300ft from a major freeway. There is always background noise here. But I don't think my housing situation is that relevant for the issue. I'm not smart enough to know what makes me "reductionist".
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    That's the noise stress dumbing you down... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise (scnr)

asdfman123 6y ago

Easy: because every so often one of those new inventions become multi-billion dollar industries. Some techs suck because they just need refinement/people aren't used to them, and some are just bad ideas. It's hard to tell in advance so people bet on all sorts of things.

supernova87a 6y ago

Isn't this a perennial complaint? Didn't the invention of cell phones come to pollute our lives with more noise than ever before? Yet we tolerated it, because of the benefits and desire of people to use them. Every technology goes through a period of societal decision whether to tolerate the downsides (even very broadly distributed, vague downsides) compared to the benefits created.