4 ms·

As a father of a 16 year old young man, given a choice, even a "false" choice like this, he simply won't do shit. And that's _bad_, since when he grows up not d

by m0zg 6y ago

As a father of a 16 year old young man, given a choice, even a "false" choice like this, he simply won't do shit. And that's _bad_, since when he grows up not doing shit won't be an option conducive to putting food on the table or providing for his family. Frankly I wish I were more authoritarian when he was younger. I bought into the "modern" parenting hook line and sinker early on, and in retrospect it could have ruined my child's prospects in life. And now it's too late to fix it - the kid has a work ethic of an inebriated sloth and only does what he wants and nothing else.

dang 6y ago
He'll come around.
afiori 6y ago
In a sense I am exactly in your son position (even if quite older already) I don't really have to blame my parents, but sure as hell I did everything I could to avoid learning any discipline and now I am paying for it in predictable ways. As often happen Scott Alexander has written a nice article on the topic; in this case it is a review of a Chinese-American mother that lives the Chinese education system through a western lens and comes to like some of the differences. https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/01/22/book-review-review-little-soldiers/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/01/22/book-review-review-lit...
- adwn 6y ago
  As with all articles on SSC, the comments are also very much worth reading. In addition, one should keep in mind that there are ways to instill some discipline and self-control into one's children that don't turn them into mindless little automatons (as the Chinese school in the reviewed book tries to do).
- m0zg 6y ago
  Admitting you have a problem is the first, necessary step to solving it, so kudos to you - better late than never. A lot of people go through their entire lives without realizing they have a problem in the first place.
alexashka 6y ago
It may shock you, but some people don't see putting food on the table or providing for a family, to be their life's calling. You can make a child care about the things you care about, about as much as you can make a homosexual become a heterosexual. It's absurd. You know who dreams of growing up to be a provider for a family? Fucking no one. 'Doing it for the mortgage' is what every asshole who sells his/her soul to the devil tells him/herself - it's why I can hardly stand talking to anyone working in big corps, their souls have left their bodies. 'Providing for my family' is another tell-tale sign your soul is in the ether, the corporate zombie has inhabited your very being. Here's a parents' role - to get to experience childhood for the second time and experience life anew, through the eyes of his/her children, helping them discover themselves and enabling them to realize their dreams and their talents, not yours. Most parents are such trash - they try and force their kids into what they think is best and most of those ideas are fear-based garbage. The number of children who hate their parents because they pushed them into careers that were safe instead of the shit the child was actually excited about. The number of shit doctors, lawyers and other professions who could've been something great instead. The shit these people do because their soul is dead. It's all so senseless and tragic. Anyhow - it's never too late to realize you're old, miserable and full of shit opinions. Your son is only 16, you've screwed up your relationship with a teenager, maybe you can have a better relationship with a young adult, but it'll have to come from first starting to have a better relationship with yourself, and undoing the nonsense opinions and fears you have inside your head. ps. I'm still editing and already seeing the downvotes pouring in :) Folks, I'm sorry for suggesting children are not your clay to be sculpted into a shape you prefer, but living beings who you love and care for and hope they can flourish into whatever shape they feel compelled to take.
- adwn 6y ago
  > It may shock you, but some people don't see putting food on the table [...] to be their life's calling. It may shock you, but if you don't put food on your table, you're going to starve and die. Sure, you might rely on the charity of others to provide for you. But if you're mentally and physically able to contribute and be productive, but choose not to, then you're a parasite. I won't comment on the rest of your post, since it's full of personal attacks, insults, and pure speculation about the another poster's character and motivations. Ironically, the opinions you articulate in your post have a somewhat postmodernist vibe to them.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
- dang 6y ago
  If you've been through both sides of this, you understand that "inebriated sloth" is a term of high affection.
  - brmgb 6y ago
    Didn't see you had replied when I deleted (I thought my comment to be somewhat devoid of interesting content). For context, I was implying that calling your teenager an inebriated sloth would surely not help the relationship. I believe you when you say it's a term of endearment. I guess I'm just finding some of my own teenage relationship with my father in the original post. My father didn't particularly approve or value how I spent my time and authority was a conflictual subject between us. Our relationship is still somewhat fifteen years later.
    - dang 6y ago
      But venting about it to sympathetic listeners probably would. No problem re deletion - sometimes the uninteresting things are more interesting than the interesting ones!
    - m0zg 6y ago
      I of course don't call him that to his face, although I do tell him frequently that unless he changes his ways he'll be living under a bridge in a few years (proverbial, obviously), and getting out of the hole is much harder than never going into it in the first place. At times it even seems that he understands, but the moment I look away, he fires up the browser and fires up YouTube. Congratulations YouTube, I guess? Excellent "engagement", give that researcher a bonus! I'm sick and tired of this already, so I think I'll just let him attend the school of hard knocks instead. It's sad though. In a way, being sheltered from adversity has severely undermined his future potential. For what it's worth my father made me do things, and always reminded me that unless I get proper education I'll be shoveling shit on a farm for the rest of my life. I grew up in rural Russia, so this was the default state, which several of my high school friends entered, permanently. I, on the other hand, gave my kid everything and sheltered him from everything, and undermined his future by doing so.

by m0zg 6y ago

dang 6y ago

He'll come around.

afiori 6y ago

In a sense I am exactly in your son position (even if quite older already) I don't really have to blame my parents, but sure as hell I did everything I could to avoid learning any discipline and now I am paying for it in predictable ways. As often happen Scott Alexander has written a nice article on the topic; in this case it is a review of a Chinese-American mother that lives the Chinese education system through a western lens and comes to like some of the differences. https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/01/22/book-review-review-little-soldiers/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/01/22/book-review-review-lit...

adwn 6y ago
As with all articles on SSC, the comments are also very much worth reading. In addition, one should keep in mind that there are ways to instill some discipline and self-control into one's children that don't turn them into mindless little automatons (as the Chinese school in the reviewed book tries to do).
m0zg 6y ago
Admitting you have a problem is the first, necessary step to solving it, so kudos to you - better late than never. A lot of people go through their entire lives without realizing they have a problem in the first place.

alexashka 6y ago

It may shock you, but some people don't see putting food on the table or providing for a family, to be their life's calling. You can make a child care about the things you care about, about as much as you can make a homosexual become a heterosexual. It's absurd. You know who dreams of growing up to be a provider for a family? Fucking no one. 'Doing it for the mortgage' is what every asshole who sells his/her soul to the devil tells him/herself - it's why I can hardly stand talking to anyone working in big corps, their souls have left their bodies. 'Providing for my family' is another tell-tale sign your soul is in the ether, the corporate zombie has inhabited your very being. Here's a parents' role - to get to experience childhood for the second time and experience life anew, through the eyes of his/her children, helping them discover themselves and enabling them to realize their dreams and their talents, not yours. Most parents are such trash - they try and force their kids into what they think is best and most of those ideas are fear-based garbage. The number of children who hate their parents because they pushed them into careers that were safe instead of the shit the child was actually excited about. The number of shit doctors, lawyers and other professions who could've been something great instead. The shit these people do because their soul is dead. It's all so senseless and tragic. Anyhow - it's never too late to realize you're old, miserable and full of shit opinions. Your son is only 16, you've screwed up your relationship with a teenager, maybe you can have a better relationship with a young adult, but it'll have to come from first starting to have a better relationship with yourself, and undoing the nonsense opinions and fears you have inside your head. ps. I'm still editing and already seeing the downvotes pouring in :) Folks, I'm sorry for suggesting children are not your clay to be sculpted into a shape you prefer, but living beings who you love and care for and hope they can flourish into whatever shape they feel compelled to take.

adwn 6y ago
> It may shock you, but some people don't see putting food on the table [...] to be their life's calling. It may shock you, but if you don't put food on your table, you're going to starve and die. Sure, you might rely on the charity of others to provide for you. But if you're mentally and physically able to contribute and be productive, but choose not to, then you're a parasite. I won't comment on the rest of your post, since it's full of personal attacks, insults, and pure speculation about the another poster's character and motivations. Ironically, the opinions you articulate in your post have a somewhat postmodernist vibe to them.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

dang 6y ago
If you've been through both sides of this, you understand that "inebriated sloth" is a term of high affection.
- brmgb 6y ago
  Didn't see you had replied when I deleted (I thought my comment to be somewhat devoid of interesting content). For context, I was implying that calling your teenager an inebriated sloth would surely not help the relationship. I believe you when you say it's a term of endearment. I guess I'm just finding some of my own teenage relationship with my father in the original post. My father didn't particularly approve or value how I spent my time and authority was a conflictual subject between us. Our relationship is still somewhat fifteen years later.
  - dang 6y ago
    But venting about it to sympathetic listeners probably would. No problem re deletion - sometimes the uninteresting things are more interesting than the interesting ones!
  - m0zg 6y ago
    I of course don't call him that to his face, although I do tell him frequently that unless he changes his ways he'll be living under a bridge in a few years (proverbial, obviously), and getting out of the hole is much harder than never going into it in the first place. At times it even seems that he understands, but the moment I look away, he fires up the browser and fires up YouTube. Congratulations YouTube, I guess? Excellent "engagement", give that researcher a bonus! I'm sick and tired of this already, so I think I'll just let him attend the school of hard knocks instead. It's sad though. In a way, being sheltered from adversity has severely undermined his future potential. For what it's worth my father made me do things, and always reminded me that unless I get proper education I'll be shoveling shit on a farm for the rest of my life. I grew up in rural Russia, so this was the default state, which several of my high school friends entered, permanently. I, on the other hand, gave my kid everything and sheltered him from everything, and undermined his future by doing so.