6 ms·

New Zealand is an island. It knew that it could pursue the full eradication option because it had few cases and could fully close its borders. European countrie

New Zealand is an island. It knew that it could pursue the full eradication option because it had few cases and could fully close its borders. European countries with their large numbers of infected and more porous borders (economy requiring movement of migrant workers for agriculture, etc.) never pursued full eradication, only curve-flattening.

viburnum 6y ago
So what if New Zealand is an island? How many people are walking to Sweden?
- renewiltord 6y ago
  That's actually a fair point. Why does the islandness matter?
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Few people might be walking on foot to Sweden (though in Tornio/Haparanda, some do walk over the border), but Sweden has land borders with two countries and a bridge to a third. Traffic has continued to move over those border crossings during the time of the pandemic. In fact, there has been a steady flow of traffic over most European border crossings along major motorways, though that traffic has consisted of only drivers and passengers who could show they are moving around for work purposes etc. The only common way into New Zealand is a flight or an occasional ship. NZ has no immediately neighboring countries that it runs freight trucks to and from day in and day out, and it doesn't need to move large numbers of agricultural workers around internationally. Therefore, for New Zealand traffic is obviously going to be smaller and easier to control than European countries.
  - mkl 6y ago
    NZ does rely on quite a few seasonal workers from overseas. Some are currently stuck here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300025484/seasonal-workers-in-nz-when-cyclone-harold-struck-are-desperate-to-get-home https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300025484/seasonal-workers-... That article says 14,000 workers/year from just the Pacific. Not sure of the total, and it's probably not large by European standards. Our borders have been very effectively closed the last few weeks though. The fact that 56 Avatar film crew people have just been let in (on a chartered flight, after testing negative, and now spending 14 days in quarantine) has been quite contentious: https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/121681820/avatar-crew-touch-down-in-wellington-in-historic-flight-from-la https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/121681...
  - roca 6y ago
    You can close roads and bridges. You can punish people who try to cross in secret. There may be reasons why you would choose not to close the borders, but it's a choice.
- kalleboo 6y ago
  In southern Sweden, people are still daily commuting to/from work in Denmark over the bridge and ferry connections
disabled 6y ago
You do not even have to close borders long-term to be a success story. Croatia (an EU country) shares both land and maritime borders with Italy, and a lot of Italians have property in Croatia that they go to on the weekend. So far, there have been 103 deaths and 2,246 cases, with a population of 1.4 million. Croatia has not had a single case of COVID-19 for 3 days in a row [1], and has been allowing citizens of several European countries, including ones like Germany, come there [2], since mid-May. This stuff is not rocket science, and while Croatia will not completely eradicate COVID-19, which is unfortunate, it still is impressive. [1] https://koronavirus.hr/en https://koronavirus.hr/en [2] https://koronavirus.hr/frequently-asked-questions-and-answers-regarding-the-conditions-of-entry-into-the-republic-of-croatia/658 https://koronavirus.hr/frequently-asked-questions-and-answer...
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Please do not post the same remarks verbatim and the same links multiple times in a discussion, it is not good netiquette.
- riquito 6y ago
  While it's admirable, Croatia has 2 / 3 times less density of population than Italy. Lombardy alone has twice the population of the whole Croatia and 6 times it's density of population. It's hard to make comparisons
  - octodog 6y ago
    The comparison is not between Croatia and Italy, but between Croatia and Sweden. In the case of Sweden, it has approximately 1/3 of the population density of Croatia. The fact that Sweden does not have a coronavirus hotspot as a neighbour further indicates that the Croatian outcomes have been much better.
    - nunenune 6y ago
      "it has approximately 1/3 of the population density of Croatia" Not really. Sweden has a low population density (23/km²) because most of the country has no one living there. The Stockholm region, where the spread of the virus has been the highest, has a population density of 5200/km². (Numbers from wikipedia)
usaar333 6y ago
Right, and smaller island countries like Iceland were able to go for border-line eradiction without a full lock down.
EdwardDiego 6y ago
NZ also needs migrant workers for agriculture, and guess what, we don't have them, and yep, it's causing issues.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

viburnum 6y ago

So what if New Zealand is an island? How many people are walking to Sweden?

renewiltord 6y ago
That's actually a fair point. Why does the islandness matter?
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Few people might be walking on foot to Sweden (though in Tornio/Haparanda, some do walk over the border), but Sweden has land borders with two countries and a bridge to a third. Traffic has continued to move over those border crossings during the time of the pandemic. In fact, there has been a steady flow of traffic over most European border crossings along major motorways, though that traffic has consisted of only drivers and passengers who could show they are moving around for work purposes etc. The only common way into New Zealand is a flight or an occasional ship. NZ has no immediately neighboring countries that it runs freight trucks to and from day in and day out, and it doesn't need to move large numbers of agricultural workers around internationally. Therefore, for New Zealand traffic is obviously going to be smaller and easier to control than European countries.
- mkl 6y ago
  NZ does rely on quite a few seasonal workers from overseas. Some are currently stuck here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300025484/seasonal-workers-in-nz-when-cyclone-harold-struck-are-desperate-to-get-home https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300025484/seasonal-workers-... That article says 14,000 workers/year from just the Pacific. Not sure of the total, and it's probably not large by European standards. Our borders have been very effectively closed the last few weeks though. The fact that 56 Avatar film crew people have just been let in (on a chartered flight, after testing negative, and now spending 14 days in quarantine) has been quite contentious: https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/121681820/avatar-crew-touch-down-in-wellington-in-historic-flight-from-la https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/121681...
- roca 6y ago
  You can close roads and bridges. You can punish people who try to cross in secret. There may be reasons why you would choose not to close the borders, but it's a choice.
kalleboo 6y ago
In southern Sweden, people are still daily commuting to/from work in Denmark over the bridge and ferry connections

disabled 6y ago

You do not even have to close borders long-term to be a success story. Croatia (an EU country) shares both land and maritime borders with Italy, and a lot of Italians have property in Croatia that they go to on the weekend. So far, there have been 103 deaths and 2,246 cases, with a population of 1.4 million. Croatia has not had a single case of COVID-19 for 3 days in a row [1], and has been allowing citizens of several European countries, including ones like Germany, come there [2], since mid-May. This stuff is not rocket science, and while Croatia will not completely eradicate COVID-19, which is unfortunate, it still is impressive. [1] https://koronavirus.hr/en https://koronavirus.hr/en [2] https://koronavirus.hr/frequently-asked-questions-and-answers-regarding-the-conditions-of-entry-into-the-republic-of-croatia/658 https://koronavirus.hr/frequently-asked-questions-and-answer...

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Please do not post the same remarks verbatim and the same links multiple times in a discussion, it is not good netiquette.
riquito 6y ago
While it's admirable, Croatia has 2 / 3 times less density of population than Italy. Lombardy alone has twice the population of the whole Croatia and 6 times it's density of population. It's hard to make comparisons
- octodog 6y ago
  The comparison is not between Croatia and Italy, but between Croatia and Sweden. In the case of Sweden, it has approximately 1/3 of the population density of Croatia. The fact that Sweden does not have a coronavirus hotspot as a neighbour further indicates that the Croatian outcomes have been much better.
  - nunenune 6y ago
    "it has approximately 1/3 of the population density of Croatia" Not really. Sweden has a low population density (23/km²) because most of the country has no one living there. The Stockholm region, where the spread of the virus has been the highest, has a population density of 5200/km². (Numbers from wikipedia)

usaar333 6y ago

Right, and smaller island countries like Iceland were able to go for border-line eradiction without a full lock down.

EdwardDiego 6y ago

NZ also needs migrant workers for agriculture, and guess what, we don't have them, and yep, it's causing issues.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]