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> The notability is commercial: StarLink is ready, or at least preparing, to negotiate peering with other providers. That’s a whole other ball game, c.f http://

> The notability is commercial: StarLink is ready, or at least preparing, to negotiate peering with other providers. That’s a whole other ball game, c.f http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Art-Of-Peering-The-Peering... http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Art-Of-Peering-The-Peering.... Can you delve into the possible business models (not military)_ and commercial applications if this remains? Starlink is seriously this biggest mystery to me about SpaceX's over all trajectory, I find it fascinating but ,my mind doens't conjure up many more thoughts than they'll either be an ISP or work with ISPs to reach a currently unavailable demographic, the nuts and bolts of how are entirely lost on me as I realistically don't understand the Industry.

fragmede 6y ago
(I couldn't load the drpeering.net link.) As far as business models having this enables, it's digital land that belongs to SpaceX/StarLink, which doesn't really restrict what sort of business can be run with it. ISPs will have an AS (sometimes more than one), but non-ISP Internet companies sometimes also have an AS. Google for, example has AS15169 [0] and Google Search and Maps and YouTube and everything is served from there. (Ignore Google Fiber as it predates it.) Wikipedia[1] goes into peering far more elaborately than I, but it would be pure speculation on my part to say anything more elaborate than "StarLink will be an ISP". Elon Musk could give the StarLink receiver hardware away for free and start his own TV channel, having this AS enables that, but doesn't give any indication other than StarLink intends to be on the Internet in a some way. (Not that you'd necessarily need an AS to have a TV channel.) [0] https://bgp.he.net/AS15169#_whois https://bgp.he.net/AS15169#_whois [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_backbone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_backbone
gpm 6y ago
I think it's a pretty safe bet that starlink will act just as an ISP. The business model is obvious, "existing ISPs target people living in permanent ground based dwellings in densely populated areas well, we'll target everyone else". Everyone else includes some obvious lucrative targets, passenger jets (especially on intercontinental flights), ocean fairing ships, rich people living in places that simply aren't hooked up to other ISPs - such as many cottages. The military isn't particularly interesting, for the most part they're just a special case of the ship and plane market segment.
inopinatus 6y ago
There's a tongue-in-cheek view that Elon Musk is a lonely alien just trying to get home. His Sub-Etha Sens-O-Matic is on the blink, so creating a privately-operated interplanetary transportation programme from first principles was the next best plan. Alternatively, view these interests (grid-scale batteries, solar panels, underground excavation, autonomous vehicles (cars, rockets, spacecraft), hyperloops, benevolent AGI, low-latency satellite internet &c &c) as essential infrastructure technologies for derisking survival on Mars and even beyond, thereby increasing the likelihood that the humans will survive even the gross mismanagement of their current planet, or a passing Vogon Constructor Fleet, by metastasising across Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha. Which is to say, that: > SpaceX's overall trajectory is a Hohmann transfer orbit, or a nice hot cup of tea.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > Elon Musk is a lonely alien Ehh, all I see is just a guy who grew up on the Internet and behaves as such on both Social Media and in real life; except his story is one where, unlike most of the population, his often seemingly reckless risk taking paid off and now he wants to put his resources to its best use that creates a Legacy that will outlive him according to Dr. Zubrin. Pretty Human if you ask me. > Alternatively, view these interests... I'm well aware of that, perhaps latenly in 2007ish and understood it well by ~2013 and I have been part of Mars Society since 2017. I got an offer to go to Tesla in Supply Chain during Model 3 ramp up, but declined so I could follow up on opportunities that led to me working for Kimbal's businesses for the past year in order to go to SpaceX. I interviewed at the Boca Chica Launch facility in February because I understood all of that and dedicated the last ~4 years of my Life to do that as I understand the imperative of being Multi-planetary. It went well, way better than I expected in fact, but in a post COVID World its just no longer tenable. I still think by re-focusing on Supply Chain I can try and join Kimbal's Sqaure Root program when it starts to send container garden farms to Mars for future colonization missions, as I have a background in Ag as well as Culinary and I'm still in good with Corporate, my old Team and Management. Hell, I'll go even further and tell you a big reason I'm a Bitcoiner to this day is because I think its the only currency/monetary system that can actually facilitate a Multi-Planetary Economy. We've had actual initiatives by members of out community petition NASA to put Bitcoin wallets on the Mars rover(s) so we could pilot test this and iterate [1], but were ultimately rejected. Still undeterred by that let down by NASA, Blockstream has a Satelite system to be able to validate the blockchain and send transaction without the need for a traditional ISP based Internet that allowed us to gain insight as to how it would work with Earth and hopefully apply that data eventually to Mars when the time comes. But, back to my initial question: What I meant to ask specifically was: from an ISP POV how do they build a system that can theoretically overcome China's Great Firewall, while simultaneously having a Tesla Factory there that is critical to the overall 'Master Plan,' without invoking the ire of the CCP and having them just take it like they have with Hong Kong? Do they just deny citizens of the PRC these services and wash their hands of the situation? Can Starlink actually have the means to circumvent the disgusting Panonopticon that's been created with the current Internet, or does the topography of how these systems are built and are routed prevent us from having the ACTUAL Internet we were supposed to have all along despite that? Could the two be so different they simply cannot interact, or does the information suggest it will simply be the same protocol? 1: https://www.ccn.com/nasa-petitioned-send-bitcoins-mars/ https://www.ccn.com/nasa-petitioned-send-bitcoins-mars/
7952 6y ago
The business model is interesting. They may be able to build a network where the marginal cost of adding a new customer is very low (just the cost of the base station). And the amount of demand and ability to pay could vary hugely across the globe. What do you charge a school in Botswana, or an arctic research station, or an oil rig, or a traffic monitoring camera in Iowa? It makes sense to have as many customers as possible within reason, regardless of what they can pay. But only if the same bandwidth can't be sold to someone else for more.
snoshy 6y ago
Link broken due to truncation. Here's a working link: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Art-Of-Peering-The-Peering-Playbook.html http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Art-Of-Peering-The-Peering...

fragmede 6y ago

(I couldn't load the drpeering.net link.) As far as business models having this enables, it's digital land that belongs to SpaceX/StarLink, which doesn't really restrict what sort of business can be run with it. ISPs will have an AS (sometimes more than one), but non-ISP Internet companies sometimes also have an AS. Google for, example has AS15169 [0] and Google Search and Maps and YouTube and everything is served from there. (Ignore Google Fiber as it predates it.) Wikipedia[1] goes into peering far more elaborately than I, but it would be pure speculation on my part to say anything more elaborate than "StarLink will be an ISP". Elon Musk could give the StarLink receiver hardware away for free and start his own TV channel, having this AS enables that, but doesn't give any indication other than StarLink intends to be on the Internet in a some way. (Not that you'd necessarily need an AS to have a TV channel.) [0] https://bgp.he.net/AS15169#_whois https://bgp.he.net/AS15169#_whois [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_backbone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_backbone

gpm 6y ago

I think it's a pretty safe bet that starlink will act just as an ISP. The business model is obvious, "existing ISPs target people living in permanent ground based dwellings in densely populated areas well, we'll target everyone else". Everyone else includes some obvious lucrative targets, passenger jets (especially on intercontinental flights), ocean fairing ships, rich people living in places that simply aren't hooked up to other ISPs - such as many cottages. The military isn't particularly interesting, for the most part they're just a special case of the ship and plane market segment.

inopinatus 6y ago

There's a tongue-in-cheek view that Elon Musk is a lonely alien just trying to get home. His Sub-Etha Sens-O-Matic is on the blink, so creating a privately-operated interplanetary transportation programme from first principles was the next best plan. Alternatively, view these interests (grid-scale batteries, solar panels, underground excavation, autonomous vehicles (cars, rockets, spacecraft), hyperloops, benevolent AGI, low-latency satellite internet &c &c) as essential infrastructure technologies for derisking survival on Mars and even beyond, thereby increasing the likelihood that the humans will survive even the gross mismanagement of their current planet, or a passing Vogon Constructor Fleet, by metastasising across Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha. Which is to say, that: > SpaceX's overall trajectory is a Hohmann transfer orbit, or a nice hot cup of tea.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> Elon Musk is a lonely alien Ehh, all I see is just a guy who grew up on the Internet and behaves as such on both Social Media and in real life; except his story is one where, unlike most of the population, his often seemingly reckless risk taking paid off and now he wants to put his resources to its best use that creates a Legacy that will outlive him according to Dr. Zubrin. Pretty Human if you ask me. > Alternatively, view these interests... I'm well aware of that, perhaps latenly in 2007ish and understood it well by ~2013 and I have been part of Mars Society since 2017. I got an offer to go to Tesla in Supply Chain during Model 3 ramp up, but declined so I could follow up on opportunities that led to me working for Kimbal's businesses for the past year in order to go to SpaceX. I interviewed at the Boca Chica Launch facility in February because I understood all of that and dedicated the last ~4 years of my Life to do that as I understand the imperative of being Multi-planetary. It went well, way better than I expected in fact, but in a post COVID World its just no longer tenable. I still think by re-focusing on Supply Chain I can try and join Kimbal's Sqaure Root program when it starts to send container garden farms to Mars for future colonization missions, as I have a background in Ag as well as Culinary and I'm still in good with Corporate, my old Team and Management. Hell, I'll go even further and tell you a big reason I'm a Bitcoiner to this day is because I think its the only currency/monetary system that can actually facilitate a Multi-Planetary Economy. We've had actual initiatives by members of out community petition NASA to put Bitcoin wallets on the Mars rover(s) so we could pilot test this and iterate [1], but were ultimately rejected. Still undeterred by that let down by NASA, Blockstream has a Satelite system to be able to validate the blockchain and send transaction without the need for a traditional ISP based Internet that allowed us to gain insight as to how it would work with Earth and hopefully apply that data eventually to Mars when the time comes. But, back to my initial question: What I meant to ask specifically was: from an ISP POV how do they build a system that can theoretically overcome China's Great Firewall, while simultaneously having a Tesla Factory there that is critical to the overall 'Master Plan,' without invoking the ire of the CCP and having them just take it like they have with Hong Kong? Do they just deny citizens of the PRC these services and wash their hands of the situation? Can Starlink actually have the means to circumvent the disgusting Panonopticon that's been created with the current Internet, or does the topography of how these systems are built and are routed prevent us from having the ACTUAL Internet we were supposed to have all along despite that? Could the two be so different they simply cannot interact, or does the information suggest it will simply be the same protocol? 1: https://www.ccn.com/nasa-petitioned-send-bitcoins-mars/ https://www.ccn.com/nasa-petitioned-send-bitcoins-mars/

7952 6y ago

The business model is interesting. They may be able to build a network where the marginal cost of adding a new customer is very low (just the cost of the base station). And the amount of demand and ability to pay could vary hugely across the globe. What do you charge a school in Botswana, or an arctic research station, or an oil rig, or a traffic monitoring camera in Iowa? It makes sense to have as many customers as possible within reason, regardless of what they can pay. But only if the same bandwidth can't be sold to someone else for more.

snoshy 6y ago

Link broken due to truncation. Here's a working link: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Art-Of-Peering-The-Peering-Playbook.html http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Art-Of-Peering-The-Peering...