5 ms·

It's true that police are asked to be solutions for social problems for which they are unsuited. However, the reason this interview is topical has to do with s

by Uhhrrr 6y ago

It's true that police are asked to be solutions for social problems for which they are unsuited. However, the reason this interview is topical has to do with someone paying for cigarettes with a possibly counterfeit bill and refusing to give them back. That seems to me to be an entirely reasonable reason to call the police.

remember_george 6y ago
Seeing how George Floyd moved to Minneapolis to do ministry work I bet he didn’t even know the bill was counterfeited.
- Uhhrrr 6y ago
  AFAICT we still don't even know whether the bill was actually counterfeit. It's not a useful fact for either side of the Culture War.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    Yeah this is the sort of bullshit detail that gets inserted into the narrative for CYA reasons. Pedestrian hit-and-run victims are reported as cyclists because of course drivers can't help but run over cyclists. The scary black man was "menacing" Karen, not telling her to pick up her dog's nasty excrement in the public park. Obvious bullshit.
- throwwwaway 6y ago
  Once one side starts speculating on things like this, the other side starts speculating on things like what was an intoxicated man doing in the driver's seat on a car. It's not helpful to the issue, which is that he was murdered by police, and that something needs to change to prevent something similar from happening again.
  - Uhhrrr 6y ago
    I'm just pointing out that the change proposed in the OP wouldn't have saved Floyd. The cops would come for anyone accused of passing counterfeit money and not returning the merchandise. Offloading cases to social agencies wouldn't have saved him indirectly, either. Four cops were almost immediately available to subdue and/or arrest him. Heck, it even looks like 5-303.01B here [1[ would have prevented Floyd's murder, had it been followed: > It shall be the duty of every sworn employee present at any scene where physical force is being applied to either stop or attempt to stop another sworn employee when force is being inappropriately applied or is no longer required. The problem has more to do with things that are squishier than policy: enforcement and the culture within the department. 1. http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/policy/mpdpolicy_5-300_5-300 http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/policy/mpdpolicy_5-30...
- throwawaymin 6y ago
  I think the throwaway I'm replying to intends to portray Floyd in a positive light. I wanted to give my take. Police show up to reports of someone attempting to use a counterfeit bill and behaving erratically. This man is 6'4, 240lbs and has priors which include 5 years in prison for home invasion where he pointed a gun at a pregnant woman's stomach. He had also been arrested 8+ times before. [1] The man's autopsy shows fentanyl at 11ng/mL, Norfentanyl, Methamphetamine and THC present in his body. He also had COVID antibodies. [3] What happened to Floyd in regards to the knee on the neck was painful to see and should be called out. Do I believe it was race related or intentional? No. Police officers have died, 4 in St. Louis and a retired ex police captain as a result of the riots.[4][5] I agree protestors shouldn't be responsible for rioters to an extent. But the rioters/looters are using the protestors as cover and many people are condoning the looting saying businesses have insurance and can rebuild. It's an easy argument to make on how insurance companies are not keen to pay out and tons of businesses will not be covered. 30 million in affordable housing was destroyed. Bus stops and grocery store were ravaged. A elderly coupled in New York were ganged up on and beat trying to protect a business. 812 fatalities resulting from use of lethal force by on-duty [cops] from 2009 to 2012. 52% white (422), 32% Black (259). I hate getting into statistics arguments because it results in a back and forth of study validity, data validity, etc. I understand "blacks" are only ~13% of the US population, but whatever reason it may be (poverty/class, etc.) they constitute 50% of violent crime. 93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks. [2] I know Fox News is often seen as right wing and biased, but I'd like to see arguments against the points in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qwif8PF1EI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qwif8PF1EI Black on Black crime is also a big deal and Chicago alone this past weekend had 80+ people shot and ~20 fatally. I'd rather focus on police reform/new policy enactment and condoning of rioters. *I am not a white supremacist, liberal, conservative, antifa, etc. I truly do want justice and believe this is an issue in which more are harmed from the actions some people are taking. I have not reviewed this post too extensively so there may be flaws in my thinking, but I prefer a discussion. I am not suggesting there is no racism is present in the US rather it is orders of magnitude less than what is portrayed in the media. I am not saying there is police brutality, but rather it is lower than what is portrayed by many media outlets. Derek Chauvin was recently charged with 2nd murder. I vehemently believe that this will not lead to a successful prosecution. [1] https://twitter.com/GoldenedGirl/status/1266632452572942337?s=19 https://twitter.com/GoldenedGirl/status/1266632452572942337?... [2] black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008 - https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf [3] https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-... [4] https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/homicide-north-st-louis/63-f5e16ea8-0a98-4cea-8350-154ef0f520ce https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/homicide-north-st-lo... [5] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/missouri/articles/2020-06-02/missouri-protests-remain-tense-in-kansas-city-st-louis https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/missouri/articles/20... [6] https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/16-dead-at-least-30-people-injured-in-weekend-shootings-across-chicago/2281362/ https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/16-dead-at-least-30-pe...
- dang 6y ago
  We've banned this account for trolling. Doing this will eventually get your main account banned as well, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - teddyh 6y ago
    I fail to see the trolling you evidently can see. Can you explain?
    - dang 6y ago
      Moderation is guesswork, and if I guessed wrong I'll be happy to apologize and correct the error, but I think the username "remember_george" is sarcastic and the comment was intended to be demeaning. "Seeing how", "I bet", and "didn't even" is language one would more likely use to sarcastically mock something than to make a straightforward point. And...what is the straightforward point supposed to be, anyway? And why post it just here? And why with that username? The odds are low that this comment was meant sincerely.
      - teddyh 6y ago
        OK, with additional information, I can now see it. But the comment itself is so indirect in its sarcasm that it can just as easily be interpreted straight, and your ban does not give the additional information to make it clear; if somebody does not know anything about George Floyd, your comment about “trolling” makes no sense to the casual reader. You could easily have given some rationale in your post, but you didn’t.
        dang 6y ago
        That's sort of a lazy-loading thing. It doesn't make sense to expend the energy to provide a detailed explanation up front, if there isn't a clear indication that anyone actually needs it. If I guessed right about the troll, the troll understands very well. If I guessed wrong, the commenter would likely protest and explain—in which case I could correct things. In either case, a detailed up-front explanation isn't a good use of energy. It would make sense if it were free, but it's not free—it's expensive. These comments are hard to write! I'm happy to pay the cost, but only if it's clear that there's one or more users who value the explanation. Does that make sense?

by Uhhrrr 6y ago

remember_george 6y ago

Seeing how George Floyd moved to Minneapolis to do ministry work I bet he didn’t even know the bill was counterfeited.

Uhhrrr 6y ago
AFAICT we still don't even know whether the bill was actually counterfeit. It's not a useful fact for either side of the Culture War.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  Yeah this is the sort of bullshit detail that gets inserted into the narrative for CYA reasons. Pedestrian hit-and-run victims are reported as cyclists because of course drivers can't help but run over cyclists. The scary black man was "menacing" Karen, not telling her to pick up her dog's nasty excrement in the public park. Obvious bullshit.
throwwwaway 6y ago
Once one side starts speculating on things like this, the other side starts speculating on things like what was an intoxicated man doing in the driver's seat on a car. It's not helpful to the issue, which is that he was murdered by police, and that something needs to change to prevent something similar from happening again.
- Uhhrrr 6y ago
  I'm just pointing out that the change proposed in the OP wouldn't have saved Floyd. The cops would come for anyone accused of passing counterfeit money and not returning the merchandise. Offloading cases to social agencies wouldn't have saved him indirectly, either. Four cops were almost immediately available to subdue and/or arrest him. Heck, it even looks like 5-303.01B here [1[ would have prevented Floyd's murder, had it been followed: > It shall be the duty of every sworn employee present at any scene where physical force is being applied to either stop or attempt to stop another sworn employee when force is being inappropriately applied or is no longer required. The problem has more to do with things that are squishier than policy: enforcement and the culture within the department. 1. http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/policy/mpdpolicy_5-300_5-300 http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/policy/mpdpolicy_5-30...
throwawaymin 6y ago
I think the throwaway I'm replying to intends to portray Floyd in a positive light. I wanted to give my take. Police show up to reports of someone attempting to use a counterfeit bill and behaving erratically. This man is 6'4, 240lbs and has priors which include 5 years in prison for home invasion where he pointed a gun at a pregnant woman's stomach. He had also been arrested 8+ times before. [1] The man's autopsy shows fentanyl at 11ng/mL, Norfentanyl, Methamphetamine and THC present in his body. He also had COVID antibodies. [3] What happened to Floyd in regards to the knee on the neck was painful to see and should be called out. Do I believe it was race related or intentional? No. Police officers have died, 4 in St. Louis and a retired ex police captain as a result of the riots.[4][5] I agree protestors shouldn't be responsible for rioters to an extent. But the rioters/looters are using the protestors as cover and many people are condoning the looting saying businesses have insurance and can rebuild. It's an easy argument to make on how insurance companies are not keen to pay out and tons of businesses will not be covered. 30 million in affordable housing was destroyed. Bus stops and grocery store were ravaged. A elderly coupled in New York were ganged up on and beat trying to protect a business. 812 fatalities resulting from use of lethal force by on-duty [cops] from 2009 to 2012. 52% white (422), 32% Black (259). I hate getting into statistics arguments because it results in a back and forth of study validity, data validity, etc. I understand "blacks" are only ~13% of the US population, but whatever reason it may be (poverty/class, etc.) they constitute 50% of violent crime. 93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks. [2] I know Fox News is often seen as right wing and biased, but I'd like to see arguments against the points in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qwif8PF1EI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qwif8PF1EI Black on Black crime is also a big deal and Chicago alone this past weekend had 80+ people shot and ~20 fatally. I'd rather focus on police reform/new policy enactment and condoning of rioters. *I am not a white supremacist, liberal, conservative, antifa, etc. I truly do want justice and believe this is an issue in which more are harmed from the actions some people are taking. I have not reviewed this post too extensively so there may be flaws in my thinking, but I prefer a discussion. I am not suggesting there is no racism is present in the US rather it is orders of magnitude less than what is portrayed in the media. I am not saying there is police brutality, but rather it is lower than what is portrayed by many media outlets. Derek Chauvin was recently charged with 2nd murder. I vehemently believe that this will not lead to a successful prosecution. [1] https://twitter.com/GoldenedGirl/status/1266632452572942337?s=19 https://twitter.com/GoldenedGirl/status/1266632452572942337?... [2] black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008 - https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf [3] https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-... [4] https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/homicide-north-st-louis/63-f5e16ea8-0a98-4cea-8350-154ef0f520ce https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/homicide-north-st-lo... [5] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/missouri/articles/2020-06-02/missouri-protests-remain-tense-in-kansas-city-st-louis https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/missouri/articles/20... [6] https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/16-dead-at-least-30-people-injured-in-weekend-shootings-across-chicago/2281362/ https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/16-dead-at-least-30-pe...
dang 6y ago
We've banned this account for trolling. Doing this will eventually get your main account banned as well, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- teddyh 6y ago
  I fail to see the trolling you evidently can see. Can you explain?
  - dang 6y ago
    Moderation is guesswork, and if I guessed wrong I'll be happy to apologize and correct the error, but I think the username "remember_george" is sarcastic and the comment was intended to be demeaning. "Seeing how", "I bet", and "didn't even" is language one would more likely use to sarcastically mock something than to make a straightforward point. And...what is the straightforward point supposed to be, anyway? And why post it just here? And why with that username? The odds are low that this comment was meant sincerely.
    - teddyh 6y ago
      OK, with additional information, I can now see it. But the comment itself is so indirect in its sarcasm that it can just as easily be interpreted straight, and your ban does not give the additional information to make it clear; if somebody does not know anything about George Floyd, your comment about “trolling” makes no sense to the casual reader. You could easily have given some rationale in your post, but you didn’t.
      - dang 6y ago
        That's sort of a lazy-loading thing. It doesn't make sense to expend the energy to provide a detailed explanation up front, if there isn't a clear indication that anyone actually needs it. If I guessed right about the troll, the troll understands very well. If I guessed wrong, the commenter would likely protest and explain—in which case I could correct things. In either case, a detailed up-front explanation isn't a good use of energy. It would make sense if it were free, but it's not free—it's expensive. These comments are hard to write! I'm happy to pay the cost, but only if it's clear that there's one or more users who value the explanation. Does that make sense?