8 ms·

This framing of the police seems very strange to my Canadian sensibilities. I'm curious about whether Americans largely agree with this description.

coliveira 6y ago
Yes, in the US police is trained to act with brutality. Especially with people from the black community. But to be fair the police is not the only culprit, that is how laws and the economic system have been designed.
bdamm 6y ago
As an expat Canadian living in a suburban county in the US, my personal interactions with the police here have always been cordial engagements as peacekeepers and caretakers of the community. I have called for welfare checks on neighbors, called the sheriff when I found a garage opener on the street, that kind of thing. Of course they were present in the aftermath of a case when a highschool kid entered a house and shot another highschool kid (who lived, surprisingly), a real shock in the sleepy community I live in. They asked around if anyone had video of the suspect approaching or departing the home. But maybe that's just me, as a Canadian, with unrealistic beliefs that the police are on my side.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- klyrs 6y ago
  As an american living in Canada, I can assure you it's not much better here -- cops are generally cordial to my white affluent self, but black and indigenous people, especially those in poverty, are not served by this justice system.
glitchc 6y ago
Canadian police are no different. Living under a dangerous illusion.
- jbay808 6y ago
  I'd like to know why you think so. In my experience, at least in Vancouver, police tend to use violence and force as absolutely the last resort, and generally play a lot more of "social worker" type of role, especially when it comes to handling issues associated with drug addiction in the downtown east side. But I could be very wrong so I'm interested in hearing other viewpoints. Or maybe you're thinking of different organizations that I'm less familiar with (perhaps the RCMP?)
  - gruez 6y ago
    >In my experience, at least in Vancouver, police tend to use violence and force as absolutely the last resort Meanwhile on /r/all today... https://old.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/gvu8fz/canadian_police_beat_16yo_boy_on_ground_for/ https://old.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/gvu8fz/cana...
  - barry-cotter 6y ago
    There’s no contradiction between abusing you wrote and police being violence workers. Police cannot do their jobs without resort to the threat of violence and occasionally actual violence. The degree of restraint varies wildly between different forces but that does not. When traffic wardens, paramedics, social workers or firefighters need someone to do legal violence they don’t do it themselves, they call the police. They are one of the forces the state has delegated its monopoly on the legitimate use of force to, along with the military. They are not primarily in the business of violence, like the military, but they can’t do their jobs without the capacity to be violent either.
  - echlebek 6y ago
    Perhaps you are unaware of the VPD's extensive use of attack dogs. https://www.vancourier.com/opinion/number-of-vancouver-police-dog-bites-has-escalated-in-last-two-years-1.23174038 https://www.vancourier.com/opinion/number-of-vancouver-polic...
  - glitchc 6y ago
    Oh? How quickly we forget. The 2010 G20 summit in Toronto must have been a walk in the park. One can see the police hand in hand with protesters singing kumbaya. Noted that this event had police officers from all over the country participating. Many conveniently forgot to wear badges and nametags, some conveniently had masks on: https://www.google.com/search?q=g20+toronto+police+brutality&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi11eGdsu3pAhXglHIEHYV9AKkQ_AUoAnoECA4QBA&biw=1920&bih=889&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?q=g20+toronto+police+brutality... And Vancouver, lovely city! Until they lose the Stanley Cup of course: https://www.google.com/search?q=vancouver+stanley+cup+riots&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiqjPynsu3pAhVmFt8KHaCfArYQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=vancouver+stanley+cu&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgYIABAFEB4yBggAEAUQHjIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB4yBggAEAgQHjIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB46BAgAEEM6BQgAELEDOgcIABCxAxBDOgUIABCDAVDD7AlYtJMKYPacCmgBcAB4AoABa4gBsAySAQQyNC4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWewAQA&sclient=img&ei=Q6fbXureI-as_Aagv4qwCw&bih=889&biw=1920 https://www.google.com/search?q=vancouver+stanley+cup+riots&...
jm4 6y ago
I don't. Whether or not you agree with this gross oversimplification is going to depend on your worldview, your experience and whether you feel disenfranchised by the system. It has nuggets of truth - the police do step in to handle violent criminals - but this assessment is largely a subjective interpretation.
xkcd-sucks 6y ago
Yes. Generally speaking, the expected value of any encounter with police is negative. They generally won't help you (although they may call someone who can help), but they might give you a hard time. The most common "good interaction" is one where they show up, insinuate that they could make trouble, and decide not to. It's slightly better in very small towns where everyone knows everyone and e.g. the chief's kids go to school with your kids
tathougies 6y ago
Canadians do not have violent warlords on their streets. You don't understand what it's like to live in our (mainly South Western) cities, and live with threats of drive-by shootings, vandalism, and getting caught in gunfire. My dad worked driving around downtown LA and surrounds for 20 some odd years and there was more than a few times he was caught in gang-based gunfire. This was in the 80s and 90s mostly, and things have become safer since then, I'll grant that, but it's not perfect. This is ridiculous. People complain about the police having war weapons. Certainly, it seems nuts, but it's also nuts that our cities -- at any time -- can turn into a warzone. People act as if the cops are over-armed. This weekend alone there were 21 homicides in Chicago. Altogether, there have been 231 just this year. To put that in perspective, the entire nation of Canada had only 651 in 2018 (https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510006801 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351000...). The fact is that Chicago will have more homicides this year than the entire nation of Canada, as will LA, and many other cities. The police seem like soldiers because we have asked them to fight a war, and we're okay with civilians being collateral damage. Instead of figuring out how to end this war (hint: it's not drugs... if we legalize drugs, they'll just find something else to do, like child prostitution, unless you wanna legalize that too), and admitting what the problem is (most gangs are coming in from Central America and Mexico), we pretend the militarization of police is because some white guys want to play soldier. Give me a break. Here are the kinds of violence we expect American police to deal with on a regular basis. These kinds of things should not be happening in america, period, and it's high time we figured out how to stop them to protect ourselves and our police: 1. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-16/ms-13-committed-gruesome-killings https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-16/ms-13-co... 2. https://www.11alive.com/article/news/gang-members-sentenced-in-most-brutal-murder-in-recent-atlanta-history/85-d3b25b76-0050-4567-ace5-fc6ccfc4536d https://www.11alive.com/article/news/gang-members-sentenced-... 3. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/09/12/tyshawn-lee-murder-chicago-gang-members-dwright-boone-doty-corey-morgan-stand-trial/2273293001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/09/12/tyshaw... My goodness, can you imagine potentially having to deal with that and then turn around to give some one a parking ticket? It's no wonder the police go nuts, and only the sadistic / psycopathic end up staying in. It's no wonder you can be 'too smart' for American policing. Anyone with a brain and time to think would go absolutely crazy pondering the dregs of society they are forced to deal with.
loco5niner 6y ago
I'm an american and I do not agree with the description. If I was ever in a bad situation and a cop suddenly showed up, I'd feel huge relief.
tathougies 6y ago
To directly answer your question, I -- a brown man -- have never had a bad interaction with police. I assume Canadians are also annoyed when given tickets, but really police have been nothing but helpful, and I feel free to approach police officers and ask questions. My dad -- also brown -- has also had the police called on him (usually because he's berating someone at a store or something), and the cops have only ever diffused the situation, never added to it.

coliveira 6y ago

Yes, in the US police is trained to act with brutality. Especially with people from the black community. But to be fair the police is not the only culprit, that is how laws and the economic system have been designed.

bdamm 6y ago

As an expat Canadian living in a suburban county in the US, my personal interactions with the police here have always been cordial engagements as peacekeepers and caretakers of the community. I have called for welfare checks on neighbors, called the sheriff when I found a garage opener on the street, that kind of thing. Of course they were present in the aftermath of a case when a highschool kid entered a house and shot another highschool kid (who lived, surprisingly), a real shock in the sleepy community I live in. They asked around if anyone had video of the suspect approaching or departing the home. But maybe that's just me, as a Canadian, with unrealistic beliefs that the police are on my side.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
klyrs 6y ago
As an american living in Canada, I can assure you it's not much better here -- cops are generally cordial to my white affluent self, but black and indigenous people, especially those in poverty, are not served by this justice system.

glitchc 6y ago

Canadian police are no different. Living under a dangerous illusion.

jbay808 6y ago
I'd like to know why you think so. In my experience, at least in Vancouver, police tend to use violence and force as absolutely the last resort, and generally play a lot more of "social worker" type of role, especially when it comes to handling issues associated with drug addiction in the downtown east side. But I could be very wrong so I'm interested in hearing other viewpoints. Or maybe you're thinking of different organizations that I'm less familiar with (perhaps the RCMP?)
- gruez 6y ago
  >In my experience, at least in Vancouver, police tend to use violence and force as absolutely the last resort Meanwhile on /r/all today... https://old.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/gvu8fz/canadian_police_beat_16yo_boy_on_ground_for/ https://old.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/gvu8fz/cana...
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  There’s no contradiction between abusing you wrote and police being violence workers. Police cannot do their jobs without resort to the threat of violence and occasionally actual violence. The degree of restraint varies wildly between different forces but that does not. When traffic wardens, paramedics, social workers or firefighters need someone to do legal violence they don’t do it themselves, they call the police. They are one of the forces the state has delegated its monopoly on the legitimate use of force to, along with the military. They are not primarily in the business of violence, like the military, but they can’t do their jobs without the capacity to be violent either.
- echlebek 6y ago
  Perhaps you are unaware of the VPD's extensive use of attack dogs. https://www.vancourier.com/opinion/number-of-vancouver-police-dog-bites-has-escalated-in-last-two-years-1.23174038 https://www.vancourier.com/opinion/number-of-vancouver-polic...
- glitchc 6y ago
  Oh? How quickly we forget. The 2010 G20 summit in Toronto must have been a walk in the park. One can see the police hand in hand with protesters singing kumbaya. Noted that this event had police officers from all over the country participating. Many conveniently forgot to wear badges and nametags, some conveniently had masks on: https://www.google.com/search?q=g20+toronto+police+brutality&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi11eGdsu3pAhXglHIEHYV9AKkQ_AUoAnoECA4QBA&biw=1920&bih=889&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?q=g20+toronto+police+brutality... And Vancouver, lovely city! Until they lose the Stanley Cup of course: https://www.google.com/search?q=vancouver+stanley+cup+riots&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiqjPynsu3pAhVmFt8KHaCfArYQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=vancouver+stanley+cu&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgYIABAFEB4yBggAEAUQHjIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB4yBggAEAgQHjIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB46BAgAEEM6BQgAELEDOgcIABCxAxBDOgUIABCDAVDD7AlYtJMKYPacCmgBcAB4AoABa4gBsAySAQQyNC4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWewAQA&sclient=img&ei=Q6fbXureI-as_Aagv4qwCw&bih=889&biw=1920 https://www.google.com/search?q=vancouver+stanley+cup+riots&...

jm4 6y ago

I don't. Whether or not you agree with this gross oversimplification is going to depend on your worldview, your experience and whether you feel disenfranchised by the system. It has nuggets of truth - the police do step in to handle violent criminals - but this assessment is largely a subjective interpretation.

xkcd-sucks 6y ago

Yes. Generally speaking, the expected value of any encounter with police is negative. They generally won't help you (although they may call someone who can help), but they might give you a hard time. The most common "good interaction" is one where they show up, insinuate that they could make trouble, and decide not to. It's slightly better in very small towns where everyone knows everyone and e.g. the chief's kids go to school with your kids

tathougies 6y ago

Canadians do not have violent warlords on their streets. You don't understand what it's like to live in our (mainly South Western) cities, and live with threats of drive-by shootings, vandalism, and getting caught in gunfire. My dad worked driving around downtown LA and surrounds for 20 some odd years and there was more than a few times he was caught in gang-based gunfire. This was in the 80s and 90s mostly, and things have become safer since then, I'll grant that, but it's not perfect. This is ridiculous. People complain about the police having war weapons. Certainly, it seems nuts, but it's also nuts that our cities -- at any time -- can turn into a warzone. People act as if the cops are over-armed. This weekend alone there were 21 homicides in Chicago. Altogether, there have been 231 just this year. To put that in perspective, the entire nation of Canada had only 651 in 2018 (https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510006801 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351000...). The fact is that Chicago will have more homicides this year than the entire nation of Canada, as will LA, and many other cities. The police seem like soldiers because we have asked them to fight a war, and we're okay with civilians being collateral damage. Instead of figuring out how to end this war (hint: it's not drugs... if we legalize drugs, they'll just find something else to do, like child prostitution, unless you wanna legalize that too), and admitting what the problem is (most gangs are coming in from Central America and Mexico), we pretend the militarization of police is because some white guys want to play soldier. Give me a break. Here are the kinds of violence we expect American police to deal with on a regular basis. These kinds of things should not be happening in america, period, and it's high time we figured out how to stop them to protect ourselves and our police: 1. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-16/ms-13-committed-gruesome-killings https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-16/ms-13-co... 2. https://www.11alive.com/article/news/gang-members-sentenced-in-most-brutal-murder-in-recent-atlanta-history/85-d3b25b76-0050-4567-ace5-fc6ccfc4536d https://www.11alive.com/article/news/gang-members-sentenced-... 3. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/09/12/tyshawn-lee-murder-chicago-gang-members-dwright-boone-doty-corey-morgan-stand-trial/2273293001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/09/12/tyshaw... My goodness, can you imagine potentially having to deal with that and then turn around to give some one a parking ticket? It's no wonder the police go nuts, and only the sadistic / psycopathic end up staying in. It's no wonder you can be 'too smart' for American policing. Anyone with a brain and time to think would go absolutely crazy pondering the dregs of society they are forced to deal with.

loco5niner 6y ago

I'm an american and I do not agree with the description. If I was ever in a bad situation and a cop suddenly showed up, I'd feel huge relief.

tathougies 6y ago

To directly answer your question, I -- a brown man -- have never had a bad interaction with police. I assume Canadians are also annoyed when given tickets, but really police have been nothing but helpful, and I feel free to approach police officers and ask questions. My dad -- also brown -- has also had the police called on him (usually because he's berating someone at a store or something), and the cops have only ever diffused the situation, never added to it.