4 ms·

As a counter point, I've been working with Linux for the last 20 or so years, and I've gotten quite used it its quirks. It would take a lot to get me to switch

by xur17 6y ago

As a counter point, I've been working with Linux for the last 20 or so years, and I've gotten quite used it its quirks. It would take a lot to get me to switch at this point - I vastly prefer using it to both Windows and OSX (I used a OSX machine for 4 years at my last job, and have used Windows off and on). If Windows was free, and Linux cost $200, I'd still go with Linux. I guess my point is that a lot of the reason so many people use Windows is because it's what they are used to, not because it's actually better.

winter_blue 6y ago
Yea, that's how I feel as well. I've been using Linux as my daily driver since 2012 (i.e. whenever I can[1]), and it's going to be hard to get me to switch. A bit unrelated: In the beginning, I was on Ubuntu, and I almost got sick of it as the extremely ancient packages were driving me crazy. I had to have numerous PPAs just to get the latest versions of GCC, Clang, Inkscape, and various other tools. Even with all the PPAs it was a huge pain to always do extra work to get a version of some package that wasn't stale. Finally though, I discovered rolling distros, and made the switch to Arch, and never looked back. (The thought of using anything but rolling distros makes me shudder.) Right now, I feel very comfortable and at home with KDE and Arch. KDE is simply just a very reasonable and well-thought-out desktop environment. Apart from that, I've been getting back into gaming (on Linux) thanks to Steam's Proton. [1] At some jobs, the work computers were Macs. And before I started using Steam's Proton, I did have Windows on my desktop solely for gaming. Fortunately, I've never had a job that required me to use a Windows computer. At one job where I was provided Windows computer, I (along with my whole team) just installed Arch on it. Strangely, each person on my team was on a different lineage of Linux. One person was using a Redhat derivative, another person the Debian-derived Ubuntu, I was on Arch, someone else might have been on SuSE. (It was primarily a Java and JS/React web dev shop, so nothing was tying us to Windows.)
- zubspace 6y ago
  Well, it's hard to replace a tool which worked for you since many years. You learn all it's tricks and you can build up your workflows around that tool. Maybe I just had some bad luck regarding Linux. I started with Suse, switch to Gentoo, then Ubuntu and Fedora and others inbetween. I remember the fights I had to take to make 3D acceleration work, strange problems with hardware, things which could not be solved easily where you instead search for step-by-step tutorials on every corner of the internet, distributions which completely failed after certain updates... You know, it's interesting and all. But in some way I got older and value my time more. So I always went back to the tool I know best, which is Windows. And I think, many many people had similar experiences I had.
  - terminalcommand 6y ago
    This is it definitely my experience. Those of us who were stubborn to stick with Linux (or BSDs) learned it inside out. It is hard to switch habits after all those years. If all those sleepless nights trying to fix hardware problems were spent on learning the Winapi/NT kernel inside out, it could be hard to switch back. What I found most interesting was that I saw a video of the creators of plan9 who were running it inside a Windows VM. At that time, I thought if those guys formerly working in the experimental OS division of Bell Labs are not bothering with Linux hardware support and simply using Windows, why shouldn't I. I forced myself to use Windows as a host and ran a Linux VM for development for 6 months or so, then I gave in again and formatted back to Linux. The same stubbornness that led me use Linux for years also led me to switch to FreeBSD, because off-the-shelf Linuxes became so decent that no config was necessary. (I also jumped on the systemd hate train.) After switching computers and getting a modern one I couldn't use FreeBSD because of GPU support. Now it has support but I don't go back to FreeBSD. I got older and valued my time more. Debian is what I feel the most comfortable with and I shall use Debian for a while. OTOH, I really also want to try NixOS and DragonFlyBSD as my daily drivers at least for a couple of months :).
    - zubspace 6y ago
      Very interesting and kinda funny, that you ended up at Debian :) But I can understand that. One thing that tells me is, that it is good to have multiple operating systems, open ones and proprietary ones. They can all learn from each other. And I long for the day where Windows will offer me an equal commandline experience like Linux and where Linux will give me a decent desktop environment, where "it just works". In some ways we're really close to that day. In many ways not so much. The only thing which sometimes gets me is, when I think about all the time me and mankind in general did (and will) waste on learning the intricacies of operating systems. It's funny and sad at the same time :)
      - Scottn1 6y ago
        Just wanted to replay that I can relate to both of you guys very much. I have been a tinkerer all my life. I've installed and played with pretty much any OS you can think of (From BeOS to Solaris to Linux. Even DragonFlyBSD - which I wish would take off as I like the community). I will always continue to play and check Distrowatch, but I have started to value time more and more as the years add up {sigh}. So with that, my love child though is, and always will be, Microsoft OS's. Started with DOS as a 10 year old and each new one I've enjoyed better than the last with Win10 being the best yet. Although I do deep down wish it wasn't full of telemetry and such, I don't get caught up in the FUD. I disable most of it and with the rest I just hope Microsoft uses it well/privately and that I am helping to make Windows better.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
rjeli 6y ago
I would pay more than the cost of an IDA license to use Linux at home :) I can't imagine not being able to cut videos on the cli with ffmpeg, reading the kernel source to understand my system, having ownership of my system in general... Haven't used Windows in a while, I've used a lot of macOS but I can't get over the recent thing about checking executable hashes against Apple servers. I get why they do it, and you can disable it and so on, but it makes it clear the end user is not expected to fully control and own their system. I have friends who do macOS or iOS dev (I don't know many win devs), and it's strange to hear them complain that Apple "won't let them" do something (distribute unsigned binaries, etc). It's my computer, I would never let someone prevent me from using it!
- terminalcommand 6y ago
  I tried to switch back to Windows numerous times, each time I hated that I can't just spawn a terminal window and do things on CLI. It is not impossible, but it doesn't feel right for me. Maybe if I were more acquainted with .NET libraries and powershell, I could achieve similar proficiency. I feel like I am being suffocated when I'm using windows for development. My current solution is to keep a windows laptop for browsing/light gaming/travel, keep a Linux desktop for programming. But we probably feel this way because we know Linux and many things are incorporated in our muscle memory. If we spent nearly equal time on Windows, it could be hard to switch back.
  - apta 6y ago
    You can run Linux on Windows, so you get the best of both worlds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux
    - terminalcommand 6y ago
      Last time I tried SBCL didn’t work. Emacs also acted funny under powershell’s terminal emulator. I guess it’s better now with WSL2.
- apta 6y ago
shim__ 6y ago
I'm in the same boat, every time that I have to use Windows I'll get annoyed by how complicated even simple things are. Not to mention the endless amount of menus and setup wizards you have to click through to get anything done.

by xur17 6y ago

winter_blue 6y ago

Yea, that's how I feel as well. I've been using Linux as my daily driver since 2012 (i.e. whenever I can[1]), and it's going to be hard to get me to switch. A bit unrelated: In the beginning, I was on Ubuntu, and I almost got sick of it as the extremely ancient packages were driving me crazy. I had to have numerous PPAs just to get the latest versions of GCC, Clang, Inkscape, and various other tools. Even with all the PPAs it was a huge pain to always do extra work to get a version of some package that wasn't stale. Finally though, I discovered rolling distros, and made the switch to Arch, and never looked back. (The thought of using anything but rolling distros makes me shudder.) Right now, I feel very comfortable and at home with KDE and Arch. KDE is simply just a very reasonable and well-thought-out desktop environment. Apart from that, I've been getting back into gaming (on Linux) thanks to Steam's Proton. [1] At some jobs, the work computers were Macs. And before I started using Steam's Proton, I did have Windows on my desktop solely for gaming. Fortunately, I've never had a job that required me to use a Windows computer. At one job where I was provided Windows computer, I (along with my whole team) just installed Arch on it. Strangely, each person on my team was on a different lineage of Linux. One person was using a Redhat derivative, another person the Debian-derived Ubuntu, I was on Arch, someone else might have been on SuSE. (It was primarily a Java and JS/React web dev shop, so nothing was tying us to Windows.)

zubspace 6y ago
Well, it's hard to replace a tool which worked for you since many years. You learn all it's tricks and you can build up your workflows around that tool. Maybe I just had some bad luck regarding Linux. I started with Suse, switch to Gentoo, then Ubuntu and Fedora and others inbetween. I remember the fights I had to take to make 3D acceleration work, strange problems with hardware, things which could not be solved easily where you instead search for step-by-step tutorials on every corner of the internet, distributions which completely failed after certain updates... You know, it's interesting and all. But in some way I got older and value my time more. So I always went back to the tool I know best, which is Windows. And I think, many many people had similar experiences I had.
- terminalcommand 6y ago
  This is it definitely my experience. Those of us who were stubborn to stick with Linux (or BSDs) learned it inside out. It is hard to switch habits after all those years. If all those sleepless nights trying to fix hardware problems were spent on learning the Winapi/NT kernel inside out, it could be hard to switch back. What I found most interesting was that I saw a video of the creators of plan9 who were running it inside a Windows VM. At that time, I thought if those guys formerly working in the experimental OS division of Bell Labs are not bothering with Linux hardware support and simply using Windows, why shouldn't I. I forced myself to use Windows as a host and ran a Linux VM for development for 6 months or so, then I gave in again and formatted back to Linux. The same stubbornness that led me use Linux for years also led me to switch to FreeBSD, because off-the-shelf Linuxes became so decent that no config was necessary. (I also jumped on the systemd hate train.) After switching computers and getting a modern one I couldn't use FreeBSD because of GPU support. Now it has support but I don't go back to FreeBSD. I got older and valued my time more. Debian is what I feel the most comfortable with and I shall use Debian for a while. OTOH, I really also want to try NixOS and DragonFlyBSD as my daily drivers at least for a couple of months :).
  - zubspace 6y ago
    Very interesting and kinda funny, that you ended up at Debian :) But I can understand that. One thing that tells me is, that it is good to have multiple operating systems, open ones and proprietary ones. They can all learn from each other. And I long for the day where Windows will offer me an equal commandline experience like Linux and where Linux will give me a decent desktop environment, where "it just works". In some ways we're really close to that day. In many ways not so much. The only thing which sometimes gets me is, when I think about all the time me and mankind in general did (and will) waste on learning the intricacies of operating systems. It's funny and sad at the same time :)
    - Scottn1 6y ago
      Just wanted to replay that I can relate to both of you guys very much. I have been a tinkerer all my life. I've installed and played with pretty much any OS you can think of (From BeOS to Solaris to Linux. Even DragonFlyBSD - which I wish would take off as I like the community). I will always continue to play and check Distrowatch, but I have started to value time more and more as the years add up {sigh}. So with that, my love child though is, and always will be, Microsoft OS's. Started with DOS as a 10 year old and each new one I've enjoyed better than the last with Win10 being the best yet. Although I do deep down wish it wasn't full of telemetry and such, I don't get caught up in the FUD. I disable most of it and with the rest I just hope Microsoft uses it well/privately and that I am helping to make Windows better.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

rjeli 6y ago

I would pay more than the cost of an IDA license to use Linux at home :) I can't imagine not being able to cut videos on the cli with ffmpeg, reading the kernel source to understand my system, having ownership of my system in general... Haven't used Windows in a while, I've used a lot of macOS but I can't get over the recent thing about checking executable hashes against Apple servers. I get why they do it, and you can disable it and so on, but it makes it clear the end user is not expected to fully control and own their system. I have friends who do macOS or iOS dev (I don't know many win devs), and it's strange to hear them complain that Apple "won't let them" do something (distribute unsigned binaries, etc). It's my computer, I would never let someone prevent me from using it!

terminalcommand 6y ago
I tried to switch back to Windows numerous times, each time I hated that I can't just spawn a terminal window and do things on CLI. It is not impossible, but it doesn't feel right for me. Maybe if I were more acquainted with .NET libraries and powershell, I could achieve similar proficiency. I feel like I am being suffocated when I'm using windows for development. My current solution is to keep a windows laptop for browsing/light gaming/travel, keep a Linux desktop for programming. But we probably feel this way because we know Linux and many things are incorporated in our muscle memory. If we spent nearly equal time on Windows, it could be hard to switch back.
- apta 6y ago
  You can run Linux on Windows, so you get the best of both worlds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux
  - terminalcommand 6y ago
    Last time I tried SBCL didn’t work. Emacs also acted funny under powershell’s terminal emulator. I guess it’s better now with WSL2.
apta 6y ago

shim__ 6y ago

I'm in the same boat, every time that I have to use Windows I'll get annoyed by how complicated even simple things are. Not to mention the endless amount of menus and setup wizards you have to click through to get anything done.