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I may very well be part of a minority, but after working with Windows for the last 20 or so years I got used to it's quirks. And yes, I actually like it. Window

I may very well be part of a minority, but after working with Windows for the last 20 or so years I got used to it's quirks. And yes, I actually like it. Windows 10 on a Dell Latitude or XPS is stable, fast and I can run everything under the sun. Office applications, very domain specific applications like the Adobe suite, uncountable useful utility software, cross platform tools like Gimp, Blender or Krita. And still there are many, many applications I absolutely love which run on Windows only. The half-baken "Flat UI" trend in Windows or the telemetry does not really concern me. Really, it is no deal for me and my colleagues. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish? Oh come on. I'm far more concerned about Microsoft losing against other players. That's the world you should be afraid of. The best thing about Windows though is Visual Studio. The general consensus is, that it's slow, clunky and hard to use. But actually, that tool is so utterly powerful, streamlined and deep, that every other development environment I every used is missing something of its glory. And I also love Linux in some ways. I used all different kinds of distributions, either through dual-boot or through Virtualbox, but actually the only thing I really use it for is server-side web-development. And well, what can I say. I love the server side applications. But all those arcane commandline wizardry and the configuration madness still irks me now and then. But well, to return on topic: It's clear that I mostly work with clients, which mainly use Windows. And there is a lot of software written for Windows environments which can probably never be replaced by other software running on Linux. The thing is, that the push of Microsoft to cross-platform .NET Core or even cross-platform UI (MAUI) opens up those applications to other environments. I'm not fully convinced, yet, but we'll see. Sorry, for rambling. Just my thoughts.

drdeadringer 6y ago
> I may very well be part of a minority, but after working with Windows for the last 20 or so years I got used to it's quirks. Granted your self-statement about being in a minority: I’ve used Windows for as long as you have and I say the quirks of Windows is what made me ditch it for Linux. For a long time I was a naive Window Hero. Then I got smart. I’ve been done with Windows for over 10 years now. I’m full Linux at home [I include Virtual Machine here]. I tolerate Mac//Apple OS at work. I try very hard to do the same for Windows at work. All of this is if I simply just must as required by Big Boss Say So.
m0xte 6y ago
I mostly agree. Windows gives me less of an ass ache from a desktop perspective. At this point it mostly just works and does so a lot better than any Linux desktop I’ve used in the last 20 years or so. On the server side I’d rather be burned alive and will use Linux for everything. If Linux sorted the desktop issues out or windows sorted the server issues out it’d change the market.
dijit 6y ago
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Unfortunately it's hard for me to read more into your argument or position after I read the opening line. Microsoft has the software support it does due to the monopoly position it has enjoyed for 30 years- this is not an argument to continue that lest we crown Microsoft "lord of the operating systems" because people actually pay them attention; Thousands upon thousands of hours of non-microsoft employed developers time goes into supporting Microsoft's bottom line, only microsoft benefits from that. Also I get a very "I had to go through a punishing time so I would prefer everyone else to be punished in perpetuity" vibe from your comments; similar to adults spanking children because they were spanked themselves and "they turned out fine". I think we can do better, all of us.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > Microsoft has the software support it does due to the monopoly position it has enjoyed for 30 years Partially, but one must also give a huge amount of credit their efforts at maintaining binary compatibility of the userland for decades. This is something Linux Desktop fails at in spectacular fashion.
  - terminalcommand 6y ago
    Linux software is usually distributed as source code, so I think the comparison does not suit very well. It's the package maintainers' duty to compatible, tested, secure binaries for you. But I imagine this sword cuts both ways. If you are a commercial app developer who wants to keep its source code to itself, maintaining binary packages for each distro and testing it could cost a significant amount.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      You don't even need to resort to commercial apps. A lot of older and niche software simply isn't in the repo. In Windows land you can download a binary and it will almost certainly run, and 10 years of updates later it will still almost certainly still run. In Linux land you'll probably have to compile it yourself. And 10 years from now you will probably have to make changes to C files manually because APIs have been changed in your dependencies and then compile it.
xur17 6y ago
As a counter point, I've been working with Linux for the last 20 or so years, and I've gotten quite used it its quirks. It would take a lot to get me to switch at this point - I vastly prefer using it to both Windows and OSX (I used a OSX machine for 4 years at my last job, and have used Windows off and on). If Windows was free, and Linux cost $200, I'd still go with Linux. I guess my point is that a lot of the reason so many people use Windows is because it's what they are used to, not because it's actually better.
- winter_blue 6y ago
  Yea, that's how I feel as well. I've been using Linux as my daily driver since 2012 (i.e. whenever I can[1]), and it's going to be hard to get me to switch. A bit unrelated: In the beginning, I was on Ubuntu, and I almost got sick of it as the extremely ancient packages were driving me crazy. I had to have numerous PPAs just to get the latest versions of GCC, Clang, Inkscape, and various other tools. Even with all the PPAs it was a huge pain to always do extra work to get a version of some package that wasn't stale. Finally though, I discovered rolling distros, and made the switch to Arch, and never looked back. (The thought of using anything but rolling distros makes me shudder.) Right now, I feel very comfortable and at home with KDE and Arch. KDE is simply just a very reasonable and well-thought-out desktop environment. Apart from that, I've been getting back into gaming (on Linux) thanks to Steam's Proton. [1] At some jobs, the work computers were Macs. And before I started using Steam's Proton, I did have Windows on my desktop solely for gaming. Fortunately, I've never had a job that required me to use a Windows computer. At one job where I was provided Windows computer, I (along with my whole team) just installed Arch on it. Strangely, each person on my team was on a different lineage of Linux. One person was using a Redhat derivative, another person the Debian-derived Ubuntu, I was on Arch, someone else might have been on SuSE. (It was primarily a Java and JS/React web dev shop, so nothing was tying us to Windows.)
  - zubspace 6y ago
    Well, it's hard to replace a tool which worked for you since many years. You learn all it's tricks and you can build up your workflows around that tool. Maybe I just had some bad luck regarding Linux. I started with Suse, switch to Gentoo, then Ubuntu and Fedora and others inbetween. I remember the fights I had to take to make 3D acceleration work, strange problems with hardware, things which could not be solved easily where you instead search for step-by-step tutorials on every corner of the internet, distributions which completely failed after certain updates... You know, it's interesting and all. But in some way I got older and value my time more. So I always went back to the tool I know best, which is Windows. And I think, many many people had similar experiences I had.
H1Supreme 6y ago
> But all those arcane commandline wizardry and the configuration madness still irks me now and then I'll take this over the seemingly endless layers of GUI based configuration screens that Windows servers use. A text based configuration file is much easier to understand, and well, configure, imo.
- wtetzner 6y ago
  And version control.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  I don’t think anyone wants to maintain windows servers. I have probably 5 or so computers at home, counting various NAS’es and raspberries and such. Most are Linux. All that have a screen however, are windows. A server I have to configure. It’s doing some kind of job. My desktop I just want to plug hardware into and see it work, and run proprietary binaries without ever configuring anything.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > A text based configuration file is much easier to understand, and well, configure, imo. Too bad there are dozens of different incompatible text-based formats for everything... oh and that they completely lack discoverability.
- Pxtl 6y ago
  It's better now that Windows has gone all-in on Powershell. Now, I said "better" but still not "good" as the powershell APIs for many critical windows features are a nightmarish trashfire of multiple buggy overlapping implementations of the same thing, but they exist. It is now very possible to admin a Windows box from the console. And as much as Powershell is a bad programming language, it's a very powerful and expressive one that bridges the gap between shell scripting and full-fledged programming.
vlod 6y ago
I've moved from Macos to Ubuntu and love it (and not really that scary as I thought, everything worked. For those that are interested: Lenova X1 Carbon). I really _want_ to like Windows 10. I like the direction it's moving with WSL2/VSCode remote connections, but man am I scared by all the zero-day exploits and all the windows 10 releases that screw up machines. I can't take it seriously. I am hopeful that MSFT can do something with Windows 10X containers that get rid of these security risks.
- finlake 6y ago
  How did you make Lenovo X1 Carbon fingerprint sensor work on Ubuntu?
cosmotic 6y ago
Regarding Visual Studio, have you used JetBrains IntelliJ IDEA? For many things, it's consistently years ahead of Visual Studio.
- zubspace 6y ago
  Well, if I had to program in Java I'd probably use IntelliJ :) Love everything coming from JetBrains. I'm a huge fan of Resharper. PyCharm and GoLand are top-notch.

drdeadringer 6y ago

> I may very well be part of a minority, but after working with Windows for the last 20 or so years I got used to it's quirks. Granted your self-statement about being in a minority: I’ve used Windows for as long as you have and I say the quirks of Windows is what made me ditch it for Linux. For a long time I was a naive Window Hero. Then I got smart. I’ve been done with Windows for over 10 years now. I’m full Linux at home [I include Virtual Machine here]. I tolerate Mac//Apple OS at work. I try very hard to do the same for Windows at work. All of this is if I simply just must as required by Big Boss Say So.

m0xte 6y ago

I mostly agree. Windows gives me less of an ass ache from a desktop perspective. At this point it mostly just works and does so a lot better than any Linux desktop I’ve used in the last 20 years or so. On the server side I’d rather be burned alive and will use Linux for everything. If Linux sorted the desktop issues out or windows sorted the server issues out it’d change the market.

dijit 6y ago

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Unfortunately it's hard for me to read more into your argument or position after I read the opening line. Microsoft has the software support it does due to the monopoly position it has enjoyed for 30 years- this is not an argument to continue that lest we crown Microsoft "lord of the operating systems" because people actually pay them attention; Thousands upon thousands of hours of non-microsoft employed developers time goes into supporting Microsoft's bottom line, only microsoft benefits from that. Also I get a very "I had to go through a punishing time so I would prefer everyone else to be punished in perpetuity" vibe from your comments; similar to adults spanking children because they were spanked themselves and "they turned out fine". I think we can do better, all of us.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> Microsoft has the software support it does due to the monopoly position it has enjoyed for 30 years Partially, but one must also give a huge amount of credit their efforts at maintaining binary compatibility of the userland for decades. This is something Linux Desktop fails at in spectacular fashion.
- terminalcommand 6y ago
  Linux software is usually distributed as source code, so I think the comparison does not suit very well. It's the package maintainers' duty to compatible, tested, secure binaries for you. But I imagine this sword cuts both ways. If you are a commercial app developer who wants to keep its source code to itself, maintaining binary packages for each distro and testing it could cost a significant amount.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    You don't even need to resort to commercial apps. A lot of older and niche software simply isn't in the repo. In Windows land you can download a binary and it will almost certainly run, and 10 years of updates later it will still almost certainly still run. In Linux land you'll probably have to compile it yourself. And 10 years from now you will probably have to make changes to C files manually because APIs have been changed in your dependencies and then compile it.

xur17 6y ago

As a counter point, I've been working with Linux for the last 20 or so years, and I've gotten quite used it its quirks. It would take a lot to get me to switch at this point - I vastly prefer using it to both Windows and OSX (I used a OSX machine for 4 years at my last job, and have used Windows off and on). If Windows was free, and Linux cost $200, I'd still go with Linux. I guess my point is that a lot of the reason so many people use Windows is because it's what they are used to, not because it's actually better.

winter_blue 6y ago
Yea, that's how I feel as well. I've been using Linux as my daily driver since 2012 (i.e. whenever I can[1]), and it's going to be hard to get me to switch. A bit unrelated: In the beginning, I was on Ubuntu, and I almost got sick of it as the extremely ancient packages were driving me crazy. I had to have numerous PPAs just to get the latest versions of GCC, Clang, Inkscape, and various other tools. Even with all the PPAs it was a huge pain to always do extra work to get a version of some package that wasn't stale. Finally though, I discovered rolling distros, and made the switch to Arch, and never looked back. (The thought of using anything but rolling distros makes me shudder.) Right now, I feel very comfortable and at home with KDE and Arch. KDE is simply just a very reasonable and well-thought-out desktop environment. Apart from that, I've been getting back into gaming (on Linux) thanks to Steam's Proton. [1] At some jobs, the work computers were Macs. And before I started using Steam's Proton, I did have Windows on my desktop solely for gaming. Fortunately, I've never had a job that required me to use a Windows computer. At one job where I was provided Windows computer, I (along with my whole team) just installed Arch on it. Strangely, each person on my team was on a different lineage of Linux. One person was using a Redhat derivative, another person the Debian-derived Ubuntu, I was on Arch, someone else might have been on SuSE. (It was primarily a Java and JS/React web dev shop, so nothing was tying us to Windows.)
- zubspace 6y ago
  Well, it's hard to replace a tool which worked for you since many years. You learn all it's tricks and you can build up your workflows around that tool. Maybe I just had some bad luck regarding Linux. I started with Suse, switch to Gentoo, then Ubuntu and Fedora and others inbetween. I remember the fights I had to take to make 3D acceleration work, strange problems with hardware, things which could not be solved easily where you instead search for step-by-step tutorials on every corner of the internet, distributions which completely failed after certain updates... You know, it's interesting and all. But in some way I got older and value my time more. So I always went back to the tool I know best, which is Windows. And I think, many many people had similar experiences I had.

H1Supreme 6y ago

> But all those arcane commandline wizardry and the configuration madness still irks me now and then I'll take this over the seemingly endless layers of GUI based configuration screens that Windows servers use. A text based configuration file is much easier to understand, and well, configure, imo.

wtetzner 6y ago
And version control.
alkonaut 6y ago
I don’t think anyone wants to maintain windows servers. I have probably 5 or so computers at home, counting various NAS’es and raspberries and such. Most are Linux. All that have a screen however, are windows. A server I have to configure. It’s doing some kind of job. My desktop I just want to plug hardware into and see it work, and run proprietary binaries without ever configuring anything.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> A text based configuration file is much easier to understand, and well, configure, imo. Too bad there are dozens of different incompatible text-based formats for everything... oh and that they completely lack discoverability.
Pxtl 6y ago
It's better now that Windows has gone all-in on Powershell. Now, I said "better" but still not "good" as the powershell APIs for many critical windows features are a nightmarish trashfire of multiple buggy overlapping implementations of the same thing, but they exist. It is now very possible to admin a Windows box from the console. And as much as Powershell is a bad programming language, it's a very powerful and expressive one that bridges the gap between shell scripting and full-fledged programming.

vlod 6y ago

I've moved from Macos to Ubuntu and love it (and not really that scary as I thought, everything worked. For those that are interested: Lenova X1 Carbon). I really _want_ to like Windows 10. I like the direction it's moving with WSL2/VSCode remote connections, but man am I scared by all the zero-day exploits and all the windows 10 releases that screw up machines. I can't take it seriously. I am hopeful that MSFT can do something with Windows 10X containers that get rid of these security risks.

finlake 6y ago
How did you make Lenovo X1 Carbon fingerprint sensor work on Ubuntu?

cosmotic 6y ago

Regarding Visual Studio, have you used JetBrains IntelliJ IDEA? For many things, it's consistently years ahead of Visual Studio.

zubspace 6y ago
Well, if I had to program in Java I'd probably use IntelliJ :) Love everything coming from JetBrains. I'm a huge fan of Resharper. PyCharm and GoLand are top-notch.