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>This extradition better be worth it. If the US frees her as some political pawn I’m going to lose my shit. The US may (and probably will) return her to China

>This extradition better be worth it. If the US frees her as some political pawn I’m going to lose my shit. The US may (and probably will) return her to China as part of some sort of diplomatic action. Why would you be angry at US? It's China that is engaging in terrible behaviour. Also, I can tell you right now that this extradition isn't worth it to Canada, but so what? Canada is following its laws and international agreements - would you have it any other way?

mthoms 6y ago
I'd argue the US has, at the very least, a moral obligation to not make a deal with China which precludes releasing those Canadians. Furthermore, I'd argue that it's in the United States best interest to do so (since it will affect the willingness of other close allies to co-operate on similar matters in the future). Then again, the current administration doesn't seem to have much love for its traditional allies, but lots of love for the almighty dollar so who knows what will happen.
- mrcorona 6y ago
  I thought the jailed Canadians were spies...are you sure they are innocent?
  - macspoofing 6y ago
    >I thought the jailed Canadians were spies...are you sure they are innocent? China claimed they were spies, 'coincidentally' after Canada detained the Huwaei executive. I'd like to see some evidence of that.
  - mthoms 6y ago
    Most people believe in "innocent until proven guilty" and China has presented exactly zero evidence. Both men are being held in solitary without access to lawyers. Nor have they faced any actual charges in court. It's been about 15 months. They are political prisoners.
jariel 6y ago
"Why would you be angry at US?" Because 'The West' is making the argument this is a matter of legality and due process - that people have commit crimes and must face consequences irrespective of the political situation. We perceive China as having a politicised Judicial system where people are arrested charged and punished often based upon their feudal status, not objective facts. China probably has a more cynical view of the West, which is fair, because no justice system is perfect. If the US released her on the basis of some kind of 'Trade Deal' then it completely wipes out the credibility of the justice system in the US (and therefore Canada) and demonstrates that she was held on what were political charges not real crimes. Without saying anything about politics, I basically hate Trump, but ironically the only thing he's doing close to 'right' are his actions on China trade. That said, I don't think he cares a single bit about the credibility of Western institutions, and if he can, he will use her as a negotiating pawn in a heartbeat. I think Trump is so arrogant and lacking in self-awareness, that he doesn't really even understand the concept of 'objective justice'. I think he really sees the world in terms of 'making deals' and apart from that 'who cares / what's the point'. The obvious opportunity to user her as pawn makes perfect sense in his mind, I think. I means the next time Canada has to arrest someone on behalf of the United States, and has to tell China that 'we have a legal process' - it will have zero meaning or value. It will 100% justify China's actions in grabbing diplomats or whoever off the street as a tit-for-tat.
- jialutu 6y ago
  Pretty much that. Here in the UK, we have a US diplomat's wife that killed a kid while driving in the UK. Having returned to the US, the US would not extradite her even though now there's an alert issued for this by the Interpol. Yeah, due process my arse! https://nypost.com/2020/05/11/interpol-seeks-arrest-of-anne-sacoolas-in-harry-dunn-death/ https://nypost.com/2020/05/11/interpol-seeks-arrest-of-anne-...

mthoms 6y ago

I'd argue the US has, at the very least, a moral obligation to not make a deal with China which precludes releasing those Canadians. Furthermore, I'd argue that it's in the United States best interest to do so (since it will affect the willingness of other close allies to co-operate on similar matters in the future). Then again, the current administration doesn't seem to have much love for its traditional allies, but lots of love for the almighty dollar so who knows what will happen.

mrcorona 6y ago
I thought the jailed Canadians were spies...are you sure they are innocent?
- macspoofing 6y ago
  >I thought the jailed Canadians were spies...are you sure they are innocent? China claimed they were spies, 'coincidentally' after Canada detained the Huwaei executive. I'd like to see some evidence of that.
- mthoms 6y ago
  Most people believe in "innocent until proven guilty" and China has presented exactly zero evidence. Both men are being held in solitary without access to lawyers. Nor have they faced any actual charges in court. It's been about 15 months. They are political prisoners.

jariel 6y ago

"Why would you be angry at US?" Because 'The West' is making the argument this is a matter of legality and due process - that people have commit crimes and must face consequences irrespective of the political situation. We perceive China as having a politicised Judicial system where people are arrested charged and punished often based upon their feudal status, not objective facts. China probably has a more cynical view of the West, which is fair, because no justice system is perfect. If the US released her on the basis of some kind of 'Trade Deal' then it completely wipes out the credibility of the justice system in the US (and therefore Canada) and demonstrates that she was held on what were political charges not real crimes. Without saying anything about politics, I basically hate Trump, but ironically the only thing he's doing close to 'right' are his actions on China trade. That said, I don't think he cares a single bit about the credibility of Western institutions, and if he can, he will use her as a negotiating pawn in a heartbeat. I think Trump is so arrogant and lacking in self-awareness, that he doesn't really even understand the concept of 'objective justice'. I think he really sees the world in terms of 'making deals' and apart from that 'who cares / what's the point'. The obvious opportunity to user her as pawn makes perfect sense in his mind, I think. I means the next time Canada has to arrest someone on behalf of the United States, and has to tell China that 'we have a legal process' - it will have zero meaning or value. It will 100% justify China's actions in grabbing diplomats or whoever off the street as a tit-for-tat.

jialutu 6y ago
Pretty much that. Here in the UK, we have a US diplomat's wife that killed a kid while driving in the UK. Having returned to the US, the US would not extradite her even though now there's an alert issued for this by the Interpol. Yeah, due process my arse! https://nypost.com/2020/05/11/interpol-seeks-arrest-of-anne-sacoolas-in-harry-dunn-death/ https://nypost.com/2020/05/11/interpol-seeks-arrest-of-anne-...