6 ms·

One of the issues with those automakers is that their interfaces are in general unresponsive and slow. The one in my BMW sucked. The Jaguar I-PACE is very slow

by goshx 6y ago

One of the issues with those automakers is that their interfaces are in general unresponsive and slow. The one in my BMW sucked. The Jaguar I-PACE is very slow as well. Tesla got this right with both the touch screen and the physical buttons on the steering wheel for things like volume control.

mlyle 6y ago
Your comment has nothing to do with what I stated. As I mentioned already, I do have a tactile steering wheel control for volume. But even the experience for a passenger adjusting volume sucks compared to a knob. And my touch screen, in general, is snappy enough.
- goshx 6y ago
  I disagree that it "has nothing to do with what [you] stated", as the user experience also influences demand, and I still think Tesla got it right with the touch screen available for passengers to change the volume and the tactile steering wheel control. Do you drive a Tesla?
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    Yeah, I was a touchscreen skeptic until I got my model 3: all the controls I care about while driving have physical controls on the steering wheel and, if I absolutely need to fiddle with the touchscreen, I can enable autopilot, which is safe enough compared to distracted driving.
    - anewdirection 6y ago
      I would argue activating autopilot while distracted is not only counter to teslas instruction, but criminally negligent. Please either drive, or take an uber, for the rest of us.
      - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
        So, when the road is well-marked and I’m adjusting the AC, you’d rather have nothing keeping my car in the lane? My hands are on the steering wheel, and I’m paying attention to the road, I just know that I’m going to be spending some amount of time looking at a screen to change a setting. This isn’t “I’m tweeting and using social media and thwarting the attention sensors“ it’s “I know my attention is going to be divided between maintaining my lane and adjusting the temperature/picking a new station so I’m going to take steps to avoid drifting out of my lane into other cars”
        fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
        “Autopilot” here is basically adaptive cruise control + lane assist, which are both technologies available from nearly every manufacturer at this point. I’m not talking about the beta Full Self Driving features.
        dejj 6y ago
        Would be awesome to use voice commands mapping physical controls. Say, “Ok, Tesla, put AC control on slider 1”. This also keeps the kids in back from messing with the AC (dads appreciate).
  - mlyle 6y ago
    > and I still think Tesla got it right with the touch screen available for passengers to change the volume and the tactile steering wheel control. That's not a super relevant point in response to me mentioning that my car has a touch screen available for passengers to change the volume and a tactile steering wheel control, and that I don't like it.
    - goshx 6y ago
      There is no way for it to be more relevant than it is. I am telling you that what you don't like in your car, I think that Tesla got it right. How is that not relevant? What kind of response are you expecting?
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    I drive a Tesla. I lost the ability to have my text messages read to me, or to respond by dictating them. For a short time there was a half-implementation from Tesla that was in no way comparable to CarPlay, but it stopped working for me a couple months ago and I haven't been able to convince it to start working again. I also used to be able to select music to play, and it didn't require jumping through a bunch of hoops to find it. Now my choices is the streaming that Tesla includes, or Spotify, and the Spotify interface is awful. I bought a subscription and tried it out, thinking I could switch from Apple Music, but after failing repeatedly to get the Spotify in the car to see playlists I created on my phone, and growing weary of Spotify on my phone or computer defaulting to playing out in the car even when I had been inside for hours, I gave up on that. I also used to use Waze, or Google Maps, or Apple Maps, depending on what I felt worked best. Thankfully the maps built in to the Tesla aren't awful, but the interface is not without its quirks. Tesla could solve this by supporting CarPlay and Android Auto, but they won't, because they need us to have a reason to pay for the premium data subscription.
    - goshx 6y ago
      I'm not sure what all of this has to do with the touch screen conversation, but I feel you. It will all be solved with software updates eventually if enough people send formal complaints.
    - filoleg 6y ago
      > I lost the ability to have my text messages read to me, or to respond by dictating them Out of curiosity, which Tesla? Because iirc there was a firmware update pushed out closer to the end of last year, which added that functionality (both having texts read and being able to respond by dictating), and I thought it went out for all Tesla cars. The only reason I asked about the specific model you drive is because I know that some older Model S and X cars receive slightly different versions of firmware updates than newer ones like Model 3, but afaik the differences are usually related to autopilot/FSD features, not to UX features like this.
      - rootusrootus 6y ago
        I have a Model 3 Performance. The text readout did work for a while, then it stopped. I haven't been able to bring it back. Unpair, re-pair, make sure bluetooth notifications are on, etc. Texts just don't show up any more. My car is a little psychotic, perhaps :-). Probably a coincidence, but I also can no longer get the dashcam to work. Tried an exotic solution first (Pi Zero emulating a drive, with WiFi uploading at home), but it wasn't reliable, so then I switched to just a regular USB drive (adapter + high endurance microSD card), which worked for a month or so, but has stopped working and I haven't been able to figure out why. I'm hoping the newest update with the Sentry updates will fix that last problem, since apparently it can format the card now. Though I did hear something about the last release also screwing up sentry for some people, so who knows. I'm at 2020.16.2, so there's at least one more point release that I haven't gotten yet.
- drusepth 6y ago
  The passenger doesn't need to keep their eyes on the road, though. It seems to me like the benefits of being able to cram a million more things (as needed) into a screen outweighs the downsides of having to glance at a screen if you're not familiar with it. I prefer touch controls both as a driver and a passenger. I even use a Halo keyboard (effectively just another screen, with no "real" buttons) on my laptop. It takes some getting used to, but eventually becomes second nature -- and then you open up huge new areas of functionality that aren't possible with physical buttons and knobs.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    I don't want a million controls on my car.
    - Koshkin 6y ago
      You have to give it to modern car tech though. This is how one would start Ford Model T: While out of the driver’s seat, the driver would need to pull the choke, located near the right front fender. At the same time, the driver had to turn the crank lever one-quarter turn clockwise to prime the carburetor. The crank lever was located beneath the radiator at the front of the auto. Next, the driver had to jump into the car, insert the key into the ignition, and turn it. Immediately, the driver had to move the timing stalk up and move the throttle stalk down to set the idle correctly. Pulling the hand brake back would place the car into neutral. The next step necessitated getting back out of the car to turn the hand crank a half-turn. This turn of the crank would actually start the engine. http://www.thebenzbin.com/early-car-starters http://www.thebenzbin.com/early-car-starters (I do miss the ability to jump-start a car using a crank lever.)
      - cryptonector 6y ago
        But you never had to hand crank a car while driving it down the road.
  - cryptonector 6y ago
    > The passenger doesn't need to keep their eyes on the road, though. What if you're driving solo?
throwaway4220 6y ago
My 2006 honda civic navigation had a good mix of touch and physical buttons, that is almost no-look. What I find funny though is that since it's a resistive touch and has a beep for every button (after a lag of course), i get "haptic feedback"
BeetleB 6y ago
> One of the issues with those automakers is that their interfaces are in general unresponsive and slow. The one in my BMW sucked. The Jaguar I-PACE is very slow as well. > Tesla got this right with both the touch screen and the physical buttons on the steering wheel for things like volume control. Perhaps there's an auto manufacturer or two that got it right. However, I've never driven a car with physical buttons that got it wrong. When I used to shop for cars in those days, I never had to consider if those buttons were compatible with me. Now when I buy for a newer car, it's an added headache to consider, and one that I've not seen add any real value. Going on a test drive really will not tell me enough about whether the interface is good. And worst of all, whether it is or isn't affects my safety.
- filoleg 6y ago
  >Perhaps there's an auto manufacturer or two that got it right. However, I've never driven a car with physical buttons that got it wrong. You gotta give it some time, because modern physical control interfaces in cars had over half a decade to evolve to reach this point. With regard to touchscreen interfaces in cars, it simply feels like those are still stuck somewhere in the pre-iPhone era of touchscreen interfaces for phones in terms of usability compared to physical controls.
- spopejoy 6y ago
  > However, I've never driven a car with physical buttons that got it wrong. I sure have, the climate control in 2001 VW GTIs is a fiddly mess of small buttons with feedback from a tiny screen almost as low as the gearstick. It's the "high end" system but the lower-end knobs are so much better and safer.

by goshx 6y ago

mlyle 6y ago

Your comment has nothing to do with what I stated. As I mentioned already, I do have a tactile steering wheel control for volume. But even the experience for a passenger adjusting volume sucks compared to a knob. And my touch screen, in general, is snappy enough.

goshx 6y ago
I disagree that it "has nothing to do with what [you] stated", as the user experience also influences demand, and I still think Tesla got it right with the touch screen available for passengers to change the volume and the tactile steering wheel control. Do you drive a Tesla?
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  Yeah, I was a touchscreen skeptic until I got my model 3: all the controls I care about while driving have physical controls on the steering wheel and, if I absolutely need to fiddle with the touchscreen, I can enable autopilot, which is safe enough compared to distracted driving.
  - anewdirection 6y ago
    I would argue activating autopilot while distracted is not only counter to teslas instruction, but criminally negligent. Please either drive, or take an uber, for the rest of us.
    - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
      So, when the road is well-marked and I’m adjusting the AC, you’d rather have nothing keeping my car in the lane? My hands are on the steering wheel, and I’m paying attention to the road, I just know that I’m going to be spending some amount of time looking at a screen to change a setting. This isn’t “I’m tweeting and using social media and thwarting the attention sensors“ it’s “I know my attention is going to be divided between maintaining my lane and adjusting the temperature/picking a new station so I’m going to take steps to avoid drifting out of my lane into other cars”
      - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
        “Autopilot” here is basically adaptive cruise control + lane assist, which are both technologies available from nearly every manufacturer at this point. I’m not talking about the beta Full Self Driving features.
      - dejj 6y ago
        Would be awesome to use voice commands mapping physical controls. Say, “Ok, Tesla, put AC control on slider 1”. This also keeps the kids in back from messing with the AC (dads appreciate).
- mlyle 6y ago
  > and I still think Tesla got it right with the touch screen available for passengers to change the volume and the tactile steering wheel control. That's not a super relevant point in response to me mentioning that my car has a touch screen available for passengers to change the volume and a tactile steering wheel control, and that I don't like it.
  - goshx 6y ago
    There is no way for it to be more relevant than it is. I am telling you that what you don't like in your car, I think that Tesla got it right. How is that not relevant? What kind of response are you expecting?
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  I drive a Tesla. I lost the ability to have my text messages read to me, or to respond by dictating them. For a short time there was a half-implementation from Tesla that was in no way comparable to CarPlay, but it stopped working for me a couple months ago and I haven't been able to convince it to start working again. I also used to be able to select music to play, and it didn't require jumping through a bunch of hoops to find it. Now my choices is the streaming that Tesla includes, or Spotify, and the Spotify interface is awful. I bought a subscription and tried it out, thinking I could switch from Apple Music, but after failing repeatedly to get the Spotify in the car to see playlists I created on my phone, and growing weary of Spotify on my phone or computer defaulting to playing out in the car even when I had been inside for hours, I gave up on that. I also used to use Waze, or Google Maps, or Apple Maps, depending on what I felt worked best. Thankfully the maps built in to the Tesla aren't awful, but the interface is not without its quirks. Tesla could solve this by supporting CarPlay and Android Auto, but they won't, because they need us to have a reason to pay for the premium data subscription.
  - goshx 6y ago
    I'm not sure what all of this has to do with the touch screen conversation, but I feel you. It will all be solved with software updates eventually if enough people send formal complaints.
  - filoleg 6y ago
    > I lost the ability to have my text messages read to me, or to respond by dictating them Out of curiosity, which Tesla? Because iirc there was a firmware update pushed out closer to the end of last year, which added that functionality (both having texts read and being able to respond by dictating), and I thought it went out for all Tesla cars. The only reason I asked about the specific model you drive is because I know that some older Model S and X cars receive slightly different versions of firmware updates than newer ones like Model 3, but afaik the differences are usually related to autopilot/FSD features, not to UX features like this.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      I have a Model 3 Performance. The text readout did work for a while, then it stopped. I haven't been able to bring it back. Unpair, re-pair, make sure bluetooth notifications are on, etc. Texts just don't show up any more. My car is a little psychotic, perhaps :-). Probably a coincidence, but I also can no longer get the dashcam to work. Tried an exotic solution first (Pi Zero emulating a drive, with WiFi uploading at home), but it wasn't reliable, so then I switched to just a regular USB drive (adapter + high endurance microSD card), which worked for a month or so, but has stopped working and I haven't been able to figure out why. I'm hoping the newest update with the Sentry updates will fix that last problem, since apparently it can format the card now. Though I did hear something about the last release also screwing up sentry for some people, so who knows. I'm at 2020.16.2, so there's at least one more point release that I haven't gotten yet.
drusepth 6y ago
The passenger doesn't need to keep their eyes on the road, though. It seems to me like the benefits of being able to cram a million more things (as needed) into a screen outweighs the downsides of having to glance at a screen if you're not familiar with it. I prefer touch controls both as a driver and a passenger. I even use a Halo keyboard (effectively just another screen, with no "real" buttons) on my laptop. It takes some getting used to, but eventually becomes second nature -- and then you open up huge new areas of functionality that aren't possible with physical buttons and knobs.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  I don't want a million controls on my car.
  - Koshkin 6y ago
    You have to give it to modern car tech though. This is how one would start Ford Model T: While out of the driver’s seat, the driver would need to pull the choke, located near the right front fender. At the same time, the driver had to turn the crank lever one-quarter turn clockwise to prime the carburetor. The crank lever was located beneath the radiator at the front of the auto. Next, the driver had to jump into the car, insert the key into the ignition, and turn it. Immediately, the driver had to move the timing stalk up and move the throttle stalk down to set the idle correctly. Pulling the hand brake back would place the car into neutral. The next step necessitated getting back out of the car to turn the hand crank a half-turn. This turn of the crank would actually start the engine. http://www.thebenzbin.com/early-car-starters http://www.thebenzbin.com/early-car-starters (I do miss the ability to jump-start a car using a crank lever.)
    - cryptonector 6y ago
      But you never had to hand crank a car while driving it down the road.
- cryptonector 6y ago
  > The passenger doesn't need to keep their eyes on the road, though. What if you're driving solo?

throwaway4220 6y ago

My 2006 honda civic navigation had a good mix of touch and physical buttons, that is almost no-look. What I find funny though is that since it's a resistive touch and has a beep for every button (after a lag of course), i get "haptic feedback"

BeetleB 6y ago

> One of the issues with those automakers is that their interfaces are in general unresponsive and slow. The one in my BMW sucked. The Jaguar I-PACE is very slow as well. > Tesla got this right with both the touch screen and the physical buttons on the steering wheel for things like volume control. Perhaps there's an auto manufacturer or two that got it right. However, I've never driven a car with physical buttons that got it wrong. When I used to shop for cars in those days, I never had to consider if those buttons were compatible with me. Now when I buy for a newer car, it's an added headache to consider, and one that I've not seen add any real value. Going on a test drive really will not tell me enough about whether the interface is good. And worst of all, whether it is or isn't affects my safety.

filoleg 6y ago
>Perhaps there's an auto manufacturer or two that got it right. However, I've never driven a car with physical buttons that got it wrong. You gotta give it some time, because modern physical control interfaces in cars had over half a decade to evolve to reach this point. With regard to touchscreen interfaces in cars, it simply feels like those are still stuck somewhere in the pre-iPhone era of touchscreen interfaces for phones in terms of usability compared to physical controls.
spopejoy 6y ago
> However, I've never driven a car with physical buttons that got it wrong. I sure have, the climate control in 2001 VW GTIs is a fiddly mess of small buttons with feedback from a tiny screen almost as low as the gearstick. It's the "high end" system but the lower-end knobs are so much better and safer.