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I think this plays into the current social unrest as well. People have been trying to separate the looters and protestors, but they seem to completely ignore th

I think this plays into the current social unrest as well. People have been trying to separate the looters and protestors, but they seem to completely ignore the extreme inequality that exists throughout the US, especially in this period of high unemployment. People at the bottom have it bad, very bad. Being ignorant of that problem is just going to make it worse. Lashing out at fancy retailers in fancy neighbourhoods makes a lot of sense as a way of sending a message to rich people, whether you like it or not.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
brenden2 6y ago
Someone commented and deleted, but in response I'll leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNfqr-rzj5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNfqr-rzj5I It's an interview with Cornel West. You may not agree with his political philosophy, but he "gets it" with regard to the current social unrest. If you want to understand what's happening, you should try to empathize with what he's talking about.
pydry 6y ago
In all likelihood lashing out at fancy retailers will be effective. Additional police powers and crackdowns will be paired with throwing the rioters a few bones (e.g. greater checks on police powers and throwing the book at George Floyd's murderers). Of course, the elites will pretend that they meant to throw that bone all along and will vehemently deny it has anything to do with a smashed up Gucci store in Beverly Hills and a lot of Americans (perhaps most) will believe this denial.
- brenden2 6y ago
  Indeed, peaceful protests are good for the status quo because they're easy to ignore. They want you to sit down and be quiet so they can ignore you. Once you start to inconvenience rich people, or god forbid cause the stock market to go down, real change will begin to happen.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  Do you really think so? These stores all have insurance. The deductibles will hurt a little but I don't think it's going to be game changing, especially for any national or international chains.
  - brenden2 6y ago
    It hurts insurance companies, but it's great for anyone who fixes or repairs windows.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Until the businesses don’t exist anymore because it’s not possible to insure at a price where people will still buy product.
      - brenden2 6y ago
        These are mostly big chains, I think they'll be okay.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        The big chains were suffering outside of a handful of affluent neighborhoods in all cities even in good times, I don’t see why this wouldn’t be a problem. Margins are low, and consumers’ ability to spend is low, so raising prices might not be possible leaving closing down as the only option.
        brenden2 6y ago
        If you don't run a viable business, should your business continue to exist? Which one do you want, socialism or capitalism? In a capitalist system, failed businesses are allowed to fail and don't get free money from the government.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
- whatshisface 6y ago
  Wait, so if there were some elites in charge of everything, and if they felt personally threatened, you are suggesting that their response would be to decrease the power of their security forces? Wouldn't they want to make the police even more powerful?
  - pydry 6y ago
    Yes of course they'd want that, but compromise is often a necessity to prevent things from spiraling totally out of control. The French and Russian revolutions are a testament to what happens when the ruler tries to effect the appearance of compromise without actually doing it (e.g. Constitution of 1906). It ended very badly for the rulers in both of those cases. They fucked up a lot more than just that, but that was a key contributing factor to their deaths.
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      The difference is in the times of the French revolution, the elite lived only mere miles away from the angry poor, within striking reach of their wrath whereas now the elites can move to super safe heavens, isolated from the mess they created and suffer no consequences from the angry masses. Jeff Bezos and Warren Buffett can move with their families to some private island in the Caribbean and wait while things cool down while running their gigs remotely. The French elite had no such luxury.
      - pydry 6y ago
        I could see Louis 16th's failed flight to varennes being repeated in a different form. It wasnt a lack of technology that stopped him, it was a man recognizing him and arresting him. Part of the problem was that he left it too long to attempt fleeing.
        brenden2 6y ago
        They didn't have helicopters, underground bunkers, and air force one.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  This is really wrong. Destroying retail will just destroy retail. When it's gone it's gone. If you think shopkeepers control the Police, you are hopelessly confused.
  - brenden2 6y ago
    The pandemic demonstrated that luxury retail is non-essential (you can still buy your Gucci bags online). When luxury retail was closed the world did not fall apart. Nobody is protesting because they can't shop at the Apple store.
    - Aunche 6y ago
      Plenty of people complain that not enough stores like Target open up in low income areas and riots are only going to make this worse.
      - brenden2 6y ago
        For someone in desperation all I hear is further reason to riot and loot. Nobody cares about these people, and politicians keep going on TV saying how they're going to put everyone in jail or shoot them.
        fein 6y ago
        Statements and actions are two very different things, and as far as I can tell the rioters have the support of both corporations and the state, as absolutely nothing has been done to deal with the unrest. That is, unless you start to cause trouble in the wrong neighborhood, then the police will absolutely take care of it: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/nypd-shoot-gunman-after-finding-man-shot-in-brooklyn/2444323/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/nypd-... I'm not sure why people are eating up the media lie idea that the government is some fascist entity supporting corporations, because the government's actions show that the rioters, politicians, corporations, and government (state and federal) are all on the same side. Revolutionaries that signal on the same lines as Sony, Target, Walmart, Google, the state governments, and the federal government... It's honestly laughable how well this is orchestrated and how incredibly naive or stupid the people are that are eating it up for social brownie points. The only people not being represented by anyone are the small business owners who don't wan't their homes and businesses eviscerated, and normal citizens who keep their heads down.
metalliqaz 6y ago
I know a few rich people. They basically want Trump to just shoot all the protesters. I don't see any message being received.
- brenden2 6y ago
  Agreed, I (unfortunately) know many of these people. They simply don't understand the problem, and do not want to empathize with "the other side". It's worth trying to help others understand why people are angry. People need real help, police need to be held accountable, and we can't just keep shoveling cash into the pockets of the rich.
  - cheez 6y ago
    Not exactly. They know, but don't care. They believe they are disconnected from the consequences.
    - brenden2 6y ago
      That may be true, but as someone who has been actually poor before, and have also known many people who were born into money, I don't think rich people really understand what it means to be poor, hopeless, and also discriminated against.
      - cheez 6y ago
        They can sympathize (intellectually) or empathize (having been poor before). The rich are not even sympathizing at this point.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- cheez 6y ago
  Same
- Miner49er 6y ago
babycake 6y ago
Politicians, police, corporations, media... the institution is trying to pushing the idea that protestors == looters. And therefore the protests should be quelled. Several states even went so far as to declare, without any evidence, that the majority of the people in the protests were from out-of-state troublemakers... which makes no sense. Even more fitting, President Trump called the protestors thugs and terrorists. It's all part of a design to stop the momentum of these protests. It's not the people who are 'ignoring' the inequalities. With 40+ million unemployed, unable to feed or pay rent, watching their tax dollars get gulped up by big corporations from the 'small business loan program', unable to get their unemployment checks, and getting beaten by police for no reason other than race and deep pocket money from politicians/rich elites. People at the bottom know exactly what's happening, because it affects their personal livelihoods very deeply, and the combination of those issues is why they are on the streets protesting day and night, while computer people like HNers who are generally well off are still behind a corporate desk with no unions, and only observing from afar.
- rixrax 6y ago
  It’s a protest! You want someones attention. What good would it do to shout slogans in some hick town in the middle of nowhere. Of course You want to go somewhere where someone actually notices. So people protesting out of state/town/county makes perfect sense to me. That said, completely agree that narrative around ‘trouble makers coming out of town’ was overblown and likely put out to take attention away from real issues at hand.
- swiley 6y ago
  I was under the impression that Trump called the rioters thugs and terrorists which is a little different.
  - scollet 6y ago
    Those are loaded terms. When you conspire to conflate protesters and looters as the latter, then it doesn't make a difference.
- blockmarker 6y ago
vinhboy 6y ago
It's easy to see this in graph form. 100K+ COVID deaths, 15%+ unemployment, wide spread homelessness, unaffordable housing crisis, riots and curfew in every major American city. Google DJIA to see a graph of how this has affected the wealthy... I am not blaming the players (well some), but the game is rigged.
- brenden2 6y ago
  The Federal Reserve injected trillions of free money into the markets, so naturally they went up.
  - rcoder 6y ago
    This IMHO defends, not defuses the preceding argument. When there was risk of the market crashing, the federal government injected trillions _into the market_. This primarily benefits those with significant capital investments, not those whose ability to provide for themselves and their families is tied directly to regular employment. Small business, retail and service workers, and employees whose jobs can't be trivially moved online are in desperate straights right now. The Fed's action did almost nothing for them.
    - brenden2 6y ago
      Just FYI, I was agreeing with the parent (and I agree with you). QE is free money for rich people, and a big slap in the face to the poor.
- derg 6y ago
  And this is all _before_ evictions and foreclosures are allowed to start again. With the number of people already behind on rent and the number of people paying rent on credit cards it could get really ugly without any policy to mitigate this.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

brenden2 6y ago

Someone commented and deleted, but in response I'll leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNfqr-rzj5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNfqr-rzj5I It's an interview with Cornel West. You may not agree with his political philosophy, but he "gets it" with regard to the current social unrest. If you want to understand what's happening, you should try to empathize with what he's talking about.

pydry 6y ago

In all likelihood lashing out at fancy retailers will be effective. Additional police powers and crackdowns will be paired with throwing the rioters a few bones (e.g. greater checks on police powers and throwing the book at George Floyd's murderers). Of course, the elites will pretend that they meant to throw that bone all along and will vehemently deny it has anything to do with a smashed up Gucci store in Beverly Hills and a lot of Americans (perhaps most) will believe this denial.

brenden2 6y ago
Indeed, peaceful protests are good for the status quo because they're easy to ignore. They want you to sit down and be quiet so they can ignore you. Once you start to inconvenience rich people, or god forbid cause the stock market to go down, real change will begin to happen.
asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
Do you really think so? These stores all have insurance. The deductibles will hurt a little but I don't think it's going to be game changing, especially for any national or international chains.
- brenden2 6y ago
  It hurts insurance companies, but it's great for anyone who fixes or repairs windows.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Until the businesses don’t exist anymore because it’s not possible to insure at a price where people will still buy product.
    - brenden2 6y ago
      These are mostly big chains, I think they'll be okay.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        The big chains were suffering outside of a handful of affluent neighborhoods in all cities even in good times, I don’t see why this wouldn’t be a problem. Margins are low, and consumers’ ability to spend is low, so raising prices might not be possible leaving closing down as the only option.
        brenden2 6y ago
        If you don't run a viable business, should your business continue to exist? Which one do you want, socialism or capitalism? In a capitalist system, failed businesses are allowed to fail and don't get free money from the government.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
whatshisface 6y ago
Wait, so if there were some elites in charge of everything, and if they felt personally threatened, you are suggesting that their response would be to decrease the power of their security forces? Wouldn't they want to make the police even more powerful?
- pydry 6y ago
  Yes of course they'd want that, but compromise is often a necessity to prevent things from spiraling totally out of control. The French and Russian revolutions are a testament to what happens when the ruler tries to effect the appearance of compromise without actually doing it (e.g. Constitution of 1906). It ended very badly for the rulers in both of those cases. They fucked up a lot more than just that, but that was a key contributing factor to their deaths.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    The difference is in the times of the French revolution, the elite lived only mere miles away from the angry poor, within striking reach of their wrath whereas now the elites can move to super safe heavens, isolated from the mess they created and suffer no consequences from the angry masses. Jeff Bezos and Warren Buffett can move with their families to some private island in the Caribbean and wait while things cool down while running their gigs remotely. The French elite had no such luxury.
    - pydry 6y ago
      I could see Louis 16th's failed flight to varennes being repeated in a different form. It wasnt a lack of technology that stopped him, it was a man recognizing him and arresting him. Part of the problem was that he left it too long to attempt fleeing.
      - brenden2 6y ago
        They didn't have helicopters, underground bunkers, and air force one.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
BurningFrog 6y ago
This is really wrong. Destroying retail will just destroy retail. When it's gone it's gone. If you think shopkeepers control the Police, you are hopelessly confused.
- brenden2 6y ago
  The pandemic demonstrated that luxury retail is non-essential (you can still buy your Gucci bags online). When luxury retail was closed the world did not fall apart. Nobody is protesting because they can't shop at the Apple store.
  - Aunche 6y ago
    Plenty of people complain that not enough stores like Target open up in low income areas and riots are only going to make this worse.
    - brenden2 6y ago
      For someone in desperation all I hear is further reason to riot and loot. Nobody cares about these people, and politicians keep going on TV saying how they're going to put everyone in jail or shoot them.
      - fein 6y ago
        Statements and actions are two very different things, and as far as I can tell the rioters have the support of both corporations and the state, as absolutely nothing has been done to deal with the unrest. That is, unless you start to cause trouble in the wrong neighborhood, then the police will absolutely take care of it: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/nypd-shoot-gunman-after-finding-man-shot-in-brooklyn/2444323/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/nypd-... I'm not sure why people are eating up the media lie idea that the government is some fascist entity supporting corporations, because the government's actions show that the rioters, politicians, corporations, and government (state and federal) are all on the same side. Revolutionaries that signal on the same lines as Sony, Target, Walmart, Google, the state governments, and the federal government... It's honestly laughable how well this is orchestrated and how incredibly naive or stupid the people are that are eating it up for social brownie points. The only people not being represented by anyone are the small business owners who don't wan't their homes and businesses eviscerated, and normal citizens who keep their heads down.

metalliqaz 6y ago

I know a few rich people. They basically want Trump to just shoot all the protesters. I don't see any message being received.

brenden2 6y ago
Agreed, I (unfortunately) know many of these people. They simply don't understand the problem, and do not want to empathize with "the other side". It's worth trying to help others understand why people are angry. People need real help, police need to be held accountable, and we can't just keep shoveling cash into the pockets of the rich.
- cheez 6y ago
  Not exactly. They know, but don't care. They believe they are disconnected from the consequences.
  - brenden2 6y ago
    That may be true, but as someone who has been actually poor before, and have also known many people who were born into money, I don't think rich people really understand what it means to be poor, hopeless, and also discriminated against.
    - cheez 6y ago
      They can sympathize (intellectually) or empathize (having been poor before). The rich are not even sympathizing at this point.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
cheez 6y ago
Same
Miner49er 6y ago

babycake 6y ago

Politicians, police, corporations, media... the institution is trying to pushing the idea that protestors == looters. And therefore the protests should be quelled. Several states even went so far as to declare, without any evidence, that the majority of the people in the protests were from out-of-state troublemakers... which makes no sense. Even more fitting, President Trump called the protestors thugs and terrorists. It's all part of a design to stop the momentum of these protests. It's not the people who are 'ignoring' the inequalities. With 40+ million unemployed, unable to feed or pay rent, watching their tax dollars get gulped up by big corporations from the 'small business loan program', unable to get their unemployment checks, and getting beaten by police for no reason other than race and deep pocket money from politicians/rich elites. People at the bottom know exactly what's happening, because it affects their personal livelihoods very deeply, and the combination of those issues is why they are on the streets protesting day and night, while computer people like HNers who are generally well off are still behind a corporate desk with no unions, and only observing from afar.

rixrax 6y ago
It’s a protest! You want someones attention. What good would it do to shout slogans in some hick town in the middle of nowhere. Of course You want to go somewhere where someone actually notices. So people protesting out of state/town/county makes perfect sense to me. That said, completely agree that narrative around ‘trouble makers coming out of town’ was overblown and likely put out to take attention away from real issues at hand.
swiley 6y ago
I was under the impression that Trump called the rioters thugs and terrorists which is a little different.
- scollet 6y ago
  Those are loaded terms. When you conspire to conflate protesters and looters as the latter, then it doesn't make a difference.
blockmarker 6y ago

vinhboy 6y ago

It's easy to see this in graph form. 100K+ COVID deaths, 15%+ unemployment, wide spread homelessness, unaffordable housing crisis, riots and curfew in every major American city. Google DJIA to see a graph of how this has affected the wealthy... I am not blaming the players (well some), but the game is rigged.

brenden2 6y ago
The Federal Reserve injected trillions of free money into the markets, so naturally they went up.
- rcoder 6y ago
  This IMHO defends, not defuses the preceding argument. When there was risk of the market crashing, the federal government injected trillions _into the market_. This primarily benefits those with significant capital investments, not those whose ability to provide for themselves and their families is tied directly to regular employment. Small business, retail and service workers, and employees whose jobs can't be trivially moved online are in desperate straights right now. The Fed's action did almost nothing for them.
  - brenden2 6y ago
    Just FYI, I was agreeing with the parent (and I agree with you). QE is free money for rich people, and a big slap in the face to the poor.
derg 6y ago
And this is all _before_ evictions and foreclosures are allowed to start again. With the number of people already behind on rent and the number of people paying rent on credit cards it could get really ugly without any policy to mitigate this.