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A good example of intelligent appliances would be like my Samsung washing machine... It had an error, so I called their support line. They asked me to hold down

A good example of intelligent appliances would be like my Samsung washing machine... It had an error, so I called their support line. They asked me to hold down two buttons simultaneously, then put my phone near the door. It let out a 10s or so digital song, the kind that modems did in the 90s - that gave them an entire diagnostic, age, model etc, and they sent someone around as they knew I couldn't fix it. Pretty amazing stuff.

creeble 6y ago
A counter example of an unintelligent washing machine: My Whirlpool emitted a diagnostic puddle of water underneath it. I Googled the seal, ordered it from an independent supplier, and installed it myself. It is now on its 25th year of use with us, and cost less than $400 when new.
- MengerSponge 6y ago
  I'm imagining your Whirlpool singing a happy diagnostic song while it wees on your floor
- teachrdan 6y ago
  While I, too, am using an ancient washing machine in my home, it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison. New washing machines use far less water and electricity than their older counterparts. They also remove more water during their spin cycle, reducing the amount of drying necessary. And if your dryer uses natural gas (as mine does), a newer washing machine will reduce your use of natural gas as well.
  - troyvit 6y ago
    What kills me is that every feature you mention can be done without needing an app, an lcd, or the cloud, and the same thing applies to electric cars. How much cheaper would an electric car like a tesla be if it didn't have autopilot, electronic keys, and LCDs everywhere? How much more secure would it be without an e-key to unlock it? I hope when I'm ready to buy an electric car I can find something like that.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      I'll be interesting if the gadgetness continues once the cost to build an EV drops below a basic gasoline powered car. My commute is 8 miles of which 6 is on a freeway. Doesn't feel like a burden. Unlike say a tech bro doing his 50 mile commute down 101. So I'm dubious an autopilot would be a big win from me.
    - primrose 6y ago
      I’m willing to bet the LCD screens and fancy hardware are a small part of the vehicle cost, esp. when compared to the batteries. All software is expensive up front but near zero cost to deploy to each additional car. At some number of cars sold the software costs becomes a rounding error.
      - mNovak 6y ago
        Except when that software needs more than a microcontroller to run. The computers Tesla throws into the cars are not super cheap.
      - fomine3 6y ago
        Car manufacturer tries to reduce penny costs for each parts literally. Good SoC/LCD are $$$. Meanwhile, software is costs at once so traditional car manufactures uses cheaper chip and force programmers to write efficient code.
      - adwww 6y ago
        The physical hardware might be a drop in the ocean on a $100,000 car, but the software engineering for all the features they enable cannot be cheap.
    - kbob 6y ago
      I believe the Tesla Models 3 and Y's LCD screens were a cost cutting measure -- one LCD replaces dozens of smaller screens, switches, buttons, and indicators, as well as the PCBs and metal chassis to support them and the molded plastic to hide the PCBs and chassis. It's probably also less engineering effort to put a set of controls on the screen than to design the corresponding physical controls.
stormdennis 6y ago
A little bit of me thinks that smells like a smoke and mirrors show as an aid to selling. Last time we got a washing machine repaired was over decade ago and it didn't last long. Pretty quickly realized that replacing worked out cheaper especially if you don't throw money away on stuff like calgon every wash. Happy to buy cheaper dumb washing machines.
fanatic2pope 6y ago
The downside to "intelligent" appliances is that the added complexity of that intelligence is not free, it adds a lot of new potential failure modes, particularly when they are connected to a network. The benefits to adding it have to be significant to be worth it, at least for me to consider purchasing a smart appliance over a dumb one.
rasz 6y ago
A web of sensors enabling diagnostics (few accelerometers, temp sensors, even more water-presence ones, maye even strain gauge, cabling, microcontroller with enough analog IO, intelligent motor controller, both BOM and labor) would offset any imaginable savings. At the end of the day the outcome is always "we will send someone". Sounds like a dog and pony show, expensive scam.
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  I agree it probably wouldn't result in a lower repair bill, but that's only one cost of appliance repair. The other major one, which isn't a big issue at the moment, but usually is... you have to be home when they come to service it. Not everyone can work from home, so the shorter the visit the better. If the diagnostics are done remotely, they can arrive with the right parts and do the job more quickly since they already have a headstart from the diagnostics. Additionally, they should be able to complete the job in only one visit since they should already have the parts they need and not have to order them. LG has a similar system too, and it makes sense for everyone. They save money on warranty repairs since their labor should be lower. Consumers save time on repairs for the same reason. They also get to drive repair work to the service company of their choice, which has benefits for them and has some pros and cons for the consumer.
driverdan 6y ago
> Pretty amazing stuff. Pretty terrible stuff. If it uses proprietary tones as a diagnostic code you can't diagnose and fix it out yourself.
Sir_Substance 6y ago
That's the opposite of a smart appliance to be honest. You can use minimodem[1] to scream a file across the room from one computers speakers to another computers modem. It's a cute trick but requires very little in the way of computation, and is a far cry from the bluetooth infested dumpster fire that is found in the modern app-controlled smart appliance offering. It's also not significantly an improvement from giving your products clearly labeled short model names and having a two digit code on a 10c LED screen, preferably with a corrosponding entry in the manual. I'd happily give it up in exchange for a washing machine with minimal electronics, so that it will last 20 years and can be fixed with duct tape and epoxy. [1]http://www.whence.com/minimodem/ http://www.whence.com/minimodem/
CamperBob2 6y ago
I can see that being useful if the app said, "Replace O-ring AE-35. Press ORDER to order this part, INSTRUCTIONS for service information and diagrams, or SERVICE to schedule a service appointment." But my guess is that pretty much every possible outcome of the diagnostic process is "Make sure an adult is home between noon and 6 PM next Tuesday to let the repair technician in." It's safe to say that empowering the consumer is pretty far down the list at Samsung's R&D department.

creeble 6y ago

A counter example of an unintelligent washing machine: My Whirlpool emitted a diagnostic puddle of water underneath it. I Googled the seal, ordered it from an independent supplier, and installed it myself. It is now on its 25th year of use with us, and cost less than $400 when new.

MengerSponge 6y ago
I'm imagining your Whirlpool singing a happy diagnostic song while it wees on your floor
teachrdan 6y ago
While I, too, am using an ancient washing machine in my home, it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison. New washing machines use far less water and electricity than their older counterparts. They also remove more water during their spin cycle, reducing the amount of drying necessary. And if your dryer uses natural gas (as mine does), a newer washing machine will reduce your use of natural gas as well.
- troyvit 6y ago
  What kills me is that every feature you mention can be done without needing an app, an lcd, or the cloud, and the same thing applies to electric cars. How much cheaper would an electric car like a tesla be if it didn't have autopilot, electronic keys, and LCDs everywhere? How much more secure would it be without an e-key to unlock it? I hope when I'm ready to buy an electric car I can find something like that.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    I'll be interesting if the gadgetness continues once the cost to build an EV drops below a basic gasoline powered car. My commute is 8 miles of which 6 is on a freeway. Doesn't feel like a burden. Unlike say a tech bro doing his 50 mile commute down 101. So I'm dubious an autopilot would be a big win from me.
  - primrose 6y ago
    I’m willing to bet the LCD screens and fancy hardware are a small part of the vehicle cost, esp. when compared to the batteries. All software is expensive up front but near zero cost to deploy to each additional car. At some number of cars sold the software costs becomes a rounding error.
    - mNovak 6y ago
      Except when that software needs more than a microcontroller to run. The computers Tesla throws into the cars are not super cheap.
    - fomine3 6y ago
      Car manufacturer tries to reduce penny costs for each parts literally. Good SoC/LCD are $$$. Meanwhile, software is costs at once so traditional car manufactures uses cheaper chip and force programmers to write efficient code.
    - adwww 6y ago
      The physical hardware might be a drop in the ocean on a $100,000 car, but the software engineering for all the features they enable cannot be cheap.
  - kbob 6y ago
    I believe the Tesla Models 3 and Y's LCD screens were a cost cutting measure -- one LCD replaces dozens of smaller screens, switches, buttons, and indicators, as well as the PCBs and metal chassis to support them and the molded plastic to hide the PCBs and chassis. It's probably also less engineering effort to put a set of controls on the screen than to design the corresponding physical controls.

stormdennis 6y ago

A little bit of me thinks that smells like a smoke and mirrors show as an aid to selling. Last time we got a washing machine repaired was over decade ago and it didn't last long. Pretty quickly realized that replacing worked out cheaper especially if you don't throw money away on stuff like calgon every wash. Happy to buy cheaper dumb washing machines.

fanatic2pope 6y ago

The downside to "intelligent" appliances is that the added complexity of that intelligence is not free, it adds a lot of new potential failure modes, particularly when they are connected to a network. The benefits to adding it have to be significant to be worth it, at least for me to consider purchasing a smart appliance over a dumb one.

rasz 6y ago

A web of sensors enabling diagnostics (few accelerometers, temp sensors, even more water-presence ones, maye even strain gauge, cabling, microcontroller with enough analog IO, intelligent motor controller, both BOM and labor) would offset any imaginable savings. At the end of the day the outcome is always "we will send someone". Sounds like a dog and pony show, expensive scam.

bonestamp2 6y ago
I agree it probably wouldn't result in a lower repair bill, but that's only one cost of appliance repair. The other major one, which isn't a big issue at the moment, but usually is... you have to be home when they come to service it. Not everyone can work from home, so the shorter the visit the better. If the diagnostics are done remotely, they can arrive with the right parts and do the job more quickly since they already have a headstart from the diagnostics. Additionally, they should be able to complete the job in only one visit since they should already have the parts they need and not have to order them. LG has a similar system too, and it makes sense for everyone. They save money on warranty repairs since their labor should be lower. Consumers save time on repairs for the same reason. They also get to drive repair work to the service company of their choice, which has benefits for them and has some pros and cons for the consumer.

driverdan 6y ago

> Pretty amazing stuff. Pretty terrible stuff. If it uses proprietary tones as a diagnostic code you can't diagnose and fix it out yourself.

Sir_Substance 6y ago

That's the opposite of a smart appliance to be honest. You can use minimodem[1] to scream a file across the room from one computers speakers to another computers modem. It's a cute trick but requires very little in the way of computation, and is a far cry from the bluetooth infested dumpster fire that is found in the modern app-controlled smart appliance offering. It's also not significantly an improvement from giving your products clearly labeled short model names and having a two digit code on a 10c LED screen, preferably with a corrosponding entry in the manual. I'd happily give it up in exchange for a washing machine with minimal electronics, so that it will last 20 years and can be fixed with duct tape and epoxy. [1]http://www.whence.com/minimodem/ http://www.whence.com/minimodem/

CamperBob2 6y ago

I can see that being useful if the app said, "Replace O-ring AE-35. Press ORDER to order this part, INSTRUCTIONS for service information and diagrams, or SERVICE to schedule a service appointment." But my guess is that pretty much every possible outcome of the diagnostic process is "Make sure an adult is home between noon and 6 PM next Tuesday to let the repair technician in." It's safe to say that empowering the consumer is pretty far down the list at Samsung's R&D department.