5 ms·

Sounds like a wakeup call to anyone doing this on other providers. I haven't heard anything about this from Verizon, but it's probably time to start tunneling m

Sounds like a wakeup call to anyone doing this on other providers. I haven't heard anything about this from Verizon, but it's probably time to start tunneling my tethered browsing via SSH. This is going to be one of the biggest casualties of a lack of net neutrality on wireless networks. Like TFA says, there should be no reason you can't consume the data you have purchased in any (legal) way you see fit.

bhousel 16y ago
Wouldn't the overhead involved in ssh tunneling your tethered traffic just help you to hit the bandwidth cap sooner? You're certainly not hiding anything from the carrier, who can easily see that your smartphone is pulling down way more data than a normal user on their network.
cosgroveb 16y ago
I read speculation that they were detecting the tethering at a lower level so SSH tunneling may not help you. I think the idea was when a packet hits their network from a device it has a particular TTL (X), if it comes in with a TTL of X-1 then it's obvious that the user is tethering.
- w1ntermute 16y ago
  I'm using USB tethering (Proxoid), so I don't think the TTL issue applies to me.
  - cosgroveb 16y ago
    Uh, yes, TTL would apply to USB tethering (if that is what they are looking for). TTL is part of IPv4 (it's called hop limit in IPv6) which is a couple levels up from the physical layer (in your case USB) in the OSI model. I mean, whether you use USB, or Ethernet, or WiFi, you're still just shuffling packets around.
    - w1ntermute 16y ago
      Well that sucks. I suppose the best thing to do is have the tethering apps not decrement the TTL, though I have no idea if any of them support that.
      - cheald 16y ago
        Again, it's not the tethering app that does it, it's the TCP stack. It's likely quite possible for a custom Android ROM to implement this workaround, but I would be surprised if you could accomplish that with an iPhone.
- metageek 16y ago
  No, ssh tunneling would help, because the IP packets making up the ssh connection would be coming from the phone, not the laptop, so they would have their TTL set by the phone.
  - cosgroveb 16y ago
    I assumed he meant ssh tunneling from his computer to a home network or something in order to disguise his User Agent or anything else identifying on the application layer. This makes more sense...
tptacek 16y ago
AT&T didn't sell you generic fungible data. Because you are a nerd on a nerd site, you're natively inclined to determine that any connectivity is generic connectivity, measured and priced only by $/bps. But $/bps isn't a product AT&T sells with generic iPhone plans. The reason AT&T charges you to tether probably has little to do with technology and everything to do with segmentation. They have two choices. They can raise their data rates for everybody and attrit customers to other providers (or to less lucrative featurephone packages). Or, they can find ways to charge higher rates to less price-sensitive customers. You are a person who wants to plug their computer into their phone and use it to get on the Internet from the Acela train. There are not that many of you, and you are uniformly wealthier than most other segments of AT&T customers. Finding a way to charge you for that behavior is marketing 101. If you're an entrepreneur, it's good that the rest of the world sees things AT&T's way (to wit: when you agree in a contract that you're going to use a service in way X and not in way Y, the provider is within its rights to enforce that contract). It's this force that allows you to charge money for things and thereby make a living. If you're anyone earning the anomalously high income accorded to technology professionals, you're run a slight risk of hypocrisy complaining about this. A complex web of similarly nerd-arbitrary contracts keeps the money flowing through the conduits and manifolds that eventually feed your bank account.
- guan 16y ago
  +1 And they do provide a more or less generic fungible data product with the tethering plan. The price is $10/1GB data beyond the included data. It may be overpriced, a function of the scarcity of mobile bandwidth with current technologies and the lack of competition in this market in the US, but I find it much better than providers who only have an unlimited product combined with either insane overage charges or vague threats about cutting you off if you consume too much data.
- sabat 16y ago
  AT&T didn't sell you generic fungible data. A lot of people would argue that beyond internet access, any more nuanced distinction is just profiteering. Imagine the power company telling you to turn off your computer because you only have an "Unlimited Light and Heat" power plan.
kgrin 16y ago
Except T-Mobile, FWIW, who doesn't charge me extra for anything (at least on my N1 - not sure if it differs by device, though I'd doubt it)

bhousel 16y ago

Wouldn't the overhead involved in ssh tunneling your tethered traffic just help you to hit the bandwidth cap sooner? You're certainly not hiding anything from the carrier, who can easily see that your smartphone is pulling down way more data than a normal user on their network.

cosgroveb 16y ago

I read speculation that they were detecting the tethering at a lower level so SSH tunneling may not help you. I think the idea was when a packet hits their network from a device it has a particular TTL (X), if it comes in with a TTL of X-1 then it's obvious that the user is tethering.

w1ntermute 16y ago
I'm using USB tethering (Proxoid), so I don't think the TTL issue applies to me.
- cosgroveb 16y ago
  Uh, yes, TTL would apply to USB tethering (if that is what they are looking for). TTL is part of IPv4 (it's called hop limit in IPv6) which is a couple levels up from the physical layer (in your case USB) in the OSI model. I mean, whether you use USB, or Ethernet, or WiFi, you're still just shuffling packets around.
  - w1ntermute 16y ago
    Well that sucks. I suppose the best thing to do is have the tethering apps not decrement the TTL, though I have no idea if any of them support that.
    - cheald 16y ago
      Again, it's not the tethering app that does it, it's the TCP stack. It's likely quite possible for a custom Android ROM to implement this workaround, but I would be surprised if you could accomplish that with an iPhone.
metageek 16y ago
No, ssh tunneling would help, because the IP packets making up the ssh connection would be coming from the phone, not the laptop, so they would have their TTL set by the phone.
- cosgroveb 16y ago
  I assumed he meant ssh tunneling from his computer to a home network or something in order to disguise his User Agent or anything else identifying on the application layer. This makes more sense...

tptacek 16y ago

AT&T didn't sell you generic fungible data. Because you are a nerd on a nerd site, you're natively inclined to determine that any connectivity is generic connectivity, measured and priced only by $/bps. But $/bps isn't a product AT&T sells with generic iPhone plans. The reason AT&T charges you to tether probably has little to do with technology and everything to do with segmentation. They have two choices. They can raise their data rates for everybody and attrit customers to other providers (or to less lucrative featurephone packages). Or, they can find ways to charge higher rates to less price-sensitive customers. You are a person who wants to plug their computer into their phone and use it to get on the Internet from the Acela train. There are not that many of you, and you are uniformly wealthier than most other segments of AT&T customers. Finding a way to charge you for that behavior is marketing 101. If you're an entrepreneur, it's good that the rest of the world sees things AT&T's way (to wit: when you agree in a contract that you're going to use a service in way X and not in way Y, the provider is within its rights to enforce that contract). It's this force that allows you to charge money for things and thereby make a living. If you're anyone earning the anomalously high income accorded to technology professionals, you're run a slight risk of hypocrisy complaining about this. A complex web of similarly nerd-arbitrary contracts keeps the money flowing through the conduits and manifolds that eventually feed your bank account.

guan 16y ago
+1 And they do provide a more or less generic fungible data product with the tethering plan. The price is $10/1GB data beyond the included data. It may be overpriced, a function of the scarcity of mobile bandwidth with current technologies and the lack of competition in this market in the US, but I find it much better than providers who only have an unlimited product combined with either insane overage charges or vague threats about cutting you off if you consume too much data.
sabat 16y ago
AT&T didn't sell you generic fungible data. A lot of people would argue that beyond internet access, any more nuanced distinction is just profiteering. Imagine the power company telling you to turn off your computer because you only have an "Unlimited Light and Heat" power plan.

kgrin 16y ago

Except T-Mobile, FWIW, who doesn't charge me extra for anything (at least on my N1 - not sure if it differs by device, though I'd doubt it)