4 ms·

>3. Most "good" programmers move to the high-income countries Your example of Germany and Switzerland in this case is less illustrative than say India and US -

>3. Most "good" programmers move to the high-income countries Your example of Germany and Switzerland in this case is less illustrative than say India and US - the poorest places automatically lose the best talent because the standard of living is not comparable even if you were earning the same remotely and had 1/10 living expenses. And then you factor in the quality of education available, projects available, etc. Juniors have a hard time getting remote jobs - so they are limited to local job market - and if most projects in your country are low end outsourcing jobs you get experienced in those vs. more demanding work.

eloisant 6y ago
There is also visa issues, not wanting to be away from family, liking the life/culture of your home country... Surely it's easy from Germany to Switzerland or Canada to the US, when you're moving to a different continent it's a whole different experience.
- rubber_duck 6y ago
  Consider the opportunities for your children growing up in a developed country with an above average income vs. staying back home. It's the same networking effects you would benefit from by moving, but multiplied since they get them from the start.
  - joelbluminator 6y ago
    Germany isn't developed?
    - rubber_duck 6y ago
      I'm talking about the more extreme cases like India and US, but if you want to take it there I'd say compared to the US the opportunities for you and your children will be better when you're in the top income bracket.
      - joelbluminator 6y ago
        Yeah, looks like a great place lately you're totally right
        skissane 6y ago
        I used to talk to my wife about moving to the US. It would be good for my career I'm sure. Then there was a school shooting. And my wife said "We are not moving to the US". And I didn't really have anything to say in response. And then there was another shooting, and another one. And each time she said the same thing, and each time I couldn't really manage a response. Eventually, I stopped talking about moving to the US. And now, when there is a mass shooting in the US, my wife doesn't say "We are not moving to the US" any more.
        joelbluminator 6y ago
        There are good things there of course, first and foremost the salaries and the nice suburban houses. It's a good place to consume things I guess. But there are many illnesses as well, what's happening now could be just a preview if things go sour economically. Also you will work more and probably experience more stress for that money than you would in Europe. On average North Europe is way happier than the U.S but not as many people wanna move there (can be partly explained by the language barriers but I think it's simply people thinking that more money = more happiness).
        skissane 6y ago
        > There are good things there of course, first and foremost the salaries and the nice suburban houses Australia has lots of nice suburban houses too. But they are expensive, and you'll struggle to get paid enough to afford one. One advantage the US has over Australia – while it has really expensive areas like the Bay Area or Manhattan, it also has lots of medium-sized cities with affordable housing and plenty of jobs – Australia's population distribution is much more lopsided, and the parts of the country with affordable housing tend to have quite limited employment opportunities, especially in fields like IT. (Remote work can help there, but Australian corporate culture is behind the US in acceptance of remote work, although COVID is helping to change that.) > On average North Europe is way happier than the U.S but not as many people wanna move there (can be partly explained by the language barriers but I think it's simply people thinking that more money = more happiness). I wonder if the weather is also a factor? The US – even just counting the 48 states – offers a wide variety in climates – Michigan in winter is colder than Copenhagen, Florida's winter is quite pleasant. Not everyone likes snow.

eloisant 6y ago

There is also visa issues, not wanting to be away from family, liking the life/culture of your home country... Surely it's easy from Germany to Switzerland or Canada to the US, when you're moving to a different continent it's a whole different experience.

rubber_duck 6y ago
Consider the opportunities for your children growing up in a developed country with an above average income vs. staying back home. It's the same networking effects you would benefit from by moving, but multiplied since they get them from the start.
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  Germany isn't developed?
  - rubber_duck 6y ago
    I'm talking about the more extreme cases like India and US, but if you want to take it there I'd say compared to the US the opportunities for you and your children will be better when you're in the top income bracket.
    - joelbluminator 6y ago
      Yeah, looks like a great place lately you're totally right
      - skissane 6y ago
        I used to talk to my wife about moving to the US. It would be good for my career I'm sure. Then there was a school shooting. And my wife said "We are not moving to the US". And I didn't really have anything to say in response. And then there was another shooting, and another one. And each time she said the same thing, and each time I couldn't really manage a response. Eventually, I stopped talking about moving to the US. And now, when there is a mass shooting in the US, my wife doesn't say "We are not moving to the US" any more.
        joelbluminator 6y ago
        There are good things there of course, first and foremost the salaries and the nice suburban houses. It's a good place to consume things I guess. But there are many illnesses as well, what's happening now could be just a preview if things go sour economically. Also you will work more and probably experience more stress for that money than you would in Europe. On average North Europe is way happier than the U.S but not as many people wanna move there (can be partly explained by the language barriers but I think it's simply people thinking that more money = more happiness).
        skissane 6y ago
        > There are good things there of course, first and foremost the salaries and the nice suburban houses Australia has lots of nice suburban houses too. But they are expensive, and you'll struggle to get paid enough to afford one. One advantage the US has over Australia – while it has really expensive areas like the Bay Area or Manhattan, it also has lots of medium-sized cities with affordable housing and plenty of jobs – Australia's population distribution is much more lopsided, and the parts of the country with affordable housing tend to have quite limited employment opportunities, especially in fields like IT. (Remote work can help there, but Australian corporate culture is behind the US in acceptance of remote work, although COVID is helping to change that.) > On average North Europe is way happier than the U.S but not as many people wanna move there (can be partly explained by the language barriers but I think it's simply people thinking that more money = more happiness). I wonder if the weather is also a factor? The US – even just counting the 48 states – offers a wide variety in climates – Michigan in winter is colder than Copenhagen, Florida's winter is quite pleasant. Not everyone likes snow.