6 ms·

If you can't see the difference between a persecuted minority seeking a safe space and a majority forcing them into segregation then there's really no point con

by untog 6y ago

If you can't see the difference between a persecuted minority seeking a safe space and a majority forcing them into segregation then there's really no point continuing this conversation. > How is it that I'm the one fighting for equality here You aren't. You're fighting to shut the door on the issue. If one section of the population is persecuted for hundreds of years, then one day the majority population says "OK, we're not going to persecute you any more!", are the two populations equal now? Or does the minority population continue to suffer from the economic and political effects of their persecution? Of course it's the latter. A cursory glance at any data on the position black people have in our economy and society would tell you that. Focusing on the definition of word "racism" is missing the forest for the trees. But look, you've obviously come to this thread to aggressively defend the opinion you already have. I'm not so deluded to think that I'm going to convince you to change your mind. And none of your points lead me to think you're going to convince me otherwise either. So I'm going to bow out of the thread and do something more productive with my time. I hope you can too.

Veen 6y ago
It's interesting to note that it isn't working-class people—the people who might reasonably feel threatened—who are demanding "safe spaces". It's extremely privileged people educated in elite institutions. These are some of the most privileged people alive with advantages not accessible to the vast majority of the population of any ethnicity or race.
- untog 6y ago
  In the specific story the OP linked to (about college students) that's true. But I don't think that automatically means working class people are not demanding similar spaces for themselves. Can you be sure they aren't?
sacks2k 6y ago
"If one section of the population is persecuted for hundreds of years, then one day the majority population says "OK, we're not going to persecute you any more!", are the two populations equal now?" This argument just doesn't make sense in 2020. Minorities are not 'persecuted' in this country and in fact are given special treatment in every possible way, especially by progressive/liberal lawmakers and heads of institutions like universities. Affirmative action is a good example of this. Where I went to college, we had affirmative action. Many African american students were pushed through, even though they didn't actually make the grade. The dropout rate was 90% because they didn't have enough of the fundamentals like math, science, or literacy. "Or does the minority population continue to suffer from the economic and political effects of their persecution?" They may suffer economic effects, but it really has little to do with their 'persecution'. It starts at home. Having multiple children in an unstable home to a single, young mother, not only makes the mother's life difficult, but the children. This is the norm for many inner city African communities, if you look at the statistics. This is something that can't be legislated away. I've known many teachers that worked in poor African American communities and they all say the same thing: we can teach anything we want to the child, but as soon as they get home, the parents/families have a much bigger influence and students end up not finishing, dropping out, etc. Just look at statistics on Asian minorities in the US. High education, high earning, and a very small percentage are on welfare. The Chinese were brought to this country as slaves to work on our railroads and suffered racism as a result. A look at the history of our China towns can see this. "Of course it's the latter. A cursory glance at any data on the position black people have in our economy and society would tell you that. Focusing on the definition of word "racism" is missing the forest for the trees." You can't see the forest through the trees. Institutions instituting segregation will not lead to better race relations and will only continue to divide us. I'm really done having this conversation with you, because It's not going anywhere.

by untog 6y ago

Veen 6y ago

It's interesting to note that it isn't working-class people—the people who might reasonably feel threatened—who are demanding "safe spaces". It's extremely privileged people educated in elite institutions. These are some of the most privileged people alive with advantages not accessible to the vast majority of the population of any ethnicity or race.

untog 6y ago
In the specific story the OP linked to (about college students) that's true. But I don't think that automatically means working class people are not demanding similar spaces for themselves. Can you be sure they aren't?

sacks2k 6y ago

"If one section of the population is persecuted for hundreds of years, then one day the majority population says "OK, we're not going to persecute you any more!", are the two populations equal now?" This argument just doesn't make sense in 2020. Minorities are not 'persecuted' in this country and in fact are given special treatment in every possible way, especially by progressive/liberal lawmakers and heads of institutions like universities. Affirmative action is a good example of this. Where I went to college, we had affirmative action. Many African american students were pushed through, even though they didn't actually make the grade. The dropout rate was 90% because they didn't have enough of the fundamentals like math, science, or literacy. "Or does the minority population continue to suffer from the economic and political effects of their persecution?" They may suffer economic effects, but it really has little to do with their 'persecution'. It starts at home. Having multiple children in an unstable home to a single, young mother, not only makes the mother's life difficult, but the children. This is the norm for many inner city African communities, if you look at the statistics. This is something that can't be legislated away. I've known many teachers that worked in poor African American communities and they all say the same thing: we can teach anything we want to the child, but as soon as they get home, the parents/families have a much bigger influence and students end up not finishing, dropping out, etc. Just look at statistics on Asian minorities in the US. High education, high earning, and a very small percentage are on welfare. The Chinese were brought to this country as slaves to work on our railroads and suffered racism as a result. A look at the history of our China towns can see this. "Of course it's the latter. A cursory glance at any data on the position black people have in our economy and society would tell you that. Focusing on the definition of word "racism" is missing the forest for the trees." You can't see the forest through the trees. Institutions instituting segregation will not lead to better race relations and will only continue to divide us. I'm really done having this conversation with you, because It's not going anywhere.