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We shouldn't counter-argument against something by saying there are worse things. Just because there are worse things does not mean that less bad things do not

by lcam84 6y ago

We shouldn't counter-argument against something by saying there are worse things. Just because there are worse things does not mean that less bad things do not matter, especially since we have to reduce our carbon emissions substantially. Personally I don't have a car and I don't fly. I live in an area that has a climate that allows me not to spend too much on air conditioning (I don't have air conditioning), but again that's not the point [1]. We currently spend 5.6 billion tons of materials on communication equipment 5.6% of all our consumption [2]. These are not figures that we can ignore, especially since in my opinion it is one of the areas that we least need to spend. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism [2] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/22/worlds-consumption-of-materials-hits-record-100bn-tonnes-a-year https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/22/worlds-c...

rsynnott 6y ago
The thing is, I don't think it's crazy to imagine that this could be a net benefit. Better comms, especially in rural areas where current comms can be extremely limited, enable people to travel less. Of course, if we had been optimising society purely for energy usage from the start, no-one would live in rural areas anyway. But that's not the world we have.
- lcam84 6y ago
  I think there are benefits but they don't justify the costs and the associated disadvantages. Ivan Illich said that the faster we can go, the further away things get.For example if we all have cars we will prepare the environment for this reality and instead of having stores close to home we will have a big shopping center miles away. I think the same can happen with information technology. I'm not really familiar with 5G technology, but I have an idea that the stations had less range than 4G although they are faster. If that were the case maybe there would be other better ways to give good network to the rural environment
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    > I'm not really familiar with 5G technology, but I have an idea that the stations had less range than 4G although they are faster. If that were the case maybe there would be other better ways to give good network to the rural environment No, that's not correct. Most countries are looking at 5G on three separate bands. Usually something in the 700MHz area (for use in rural areas, similar range to the longest-range LTE), something in the 2.5GHz area (for use in urban areas, similar range to current shorter range LTE), and ~30GHz (very short range, dense urban areas only).
    - lcam84 6y ago
      For the 700MHz area what are the diferences in speed compared to 4G LTE?

by lcam84 6y ago

rsynnott 6y ago

The thing is, I don't think it's crazy to imagine that this could be a net benefit. Better comms, especially in rural areas where current comms can be extremely limited, enable people to travel less. Of course, if we had been optimising society purely for energy usage from the start, no-one would live in rural areas anyway. But that's not the world we have.

lcam84 6y ago
I think there are benefits but they don't justify the costs and the associated disadvantages. Ivan Illich said that the faster we can go, the further away things get.For example if we all have cars we will prepare the environment for this reality and instead of having stores close to home we will have a big shopping center miles away. I think the same can happen with information technology. I'm not really familiar with 5G technology, but I have an idea that the stations had less range than 4G although they are faster. If that were the case maybe there would be other better ways to give good network to the rural environment
- rsynnott 6y ago
  > I'm not really familiar with 5G technology, but I have an idea that the stations had less range than 4G although they are faster. If that were the case maybe there would be other better ways to give good network to the rural environment No, that's not correct. Most countries are looking at 5G on three separate bands. Usually something in the 700MHz area (for use in rural areas, similar range to the longest-range LTE), something in the 2.5GHz area (for use in urban areas, similar range to current shorter range LTE), and ~30GHz (very short range, dense urban areas only).
  - lcam84 6y ago
    For the 700MHz area what are the diferences in speed compared to 4G LTE?