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>You've now left the realm of science and entered the realm of politics. All badness is the realm of morality and politics, not science. Science can predict ho

>You've now left the realm of science and entered the realm of politics. All badness is the realm of morality and politics, not science. Science can predict how many people will die, it can't weigh this up against other consequences. Science can't make moral judgements, only inform them. >"Lockdown badness" is something that is the result of poor government policy and actually has solutions--it is not immutable scientific fact. A big part of the lockdown badness is the economic damage. This is an immutable economic fact: stopping most people working will mean fewer things are produced, and more of the existing things and infrastructure will be consumed. This translates into worse standard of living and quality of life for people. Weighing this against the health damage from the virus is a matter of politics/ethics, not of science. What we can see clearly is countries with no widespread forced closure of businesses, like Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Sweden, are having much better economic outcomes compared to countries with strong lockdowns like the US, France and Italy (expected yearly GDP growth of ~0%, vs ~-5% for the lockdown countries).

bsder 6y ago
South Korea is also contemplating murder charges against a church. They also did massive contact tracing when they were still under 100 cases. South Korea took this massively seriously. As did Taiwan after Wuhan. Taiwan also rationed emergency supplies. Here's what Taiwan did: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taiwan-covid-19-lessons-1.5505031 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taiwan-covid-19-lessons-1.5... See any of those dividers in the US? Yeah, no, you can't even get people to put masks on. Japan seems to be cooking the books because of the Olympics even though that's simply not going to happen. Sweden is about to pass the US in cases and deaths per capita and is right about the same economics as the other European countries (which are all benefiting from their social safety net). Not sure that's counts as better than the rest of the EU--we'll see if it continues. Your economic claims are dubious. The primary difference is how fast a country reacted, not how hard. The problem is that if a country didn't react fast enough, it is then required that you react harder and longer.
- logicchains 6y ago
  >South Korea is also contemplating murder charges against a church. They also did massive contact tracing when they were still under 100 cases. South Korea took this massively seriously. >As did Taiwan after Wuhan. Taiwan also rationed emergency supplies. Here's what Taiwan did: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taiwan-covid-19-lessons-1.5.. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taiwan-covid-19-lessons-1.5.... But they didn't mass-close businesses. That's what causes the economic damage. >the same economics as the other European countries (which are all benefiting from their social safety net You sure about that? https://www.dw.com/en/as-coronavirus-lockdown-eases-italians-fear-bleak-future/a-53313932 https://www.dw.com/en/as-coronavirus-lockdown-eases-italians... , https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/23/unrest-hunger-and-hardship-in-france-s-locked-down-suburbs https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/23/unrest-hunger-and-hardsh... . > The problem is that if a country didn't react fast enough, it is then required that you react harder and longer. Required by what? Sweden hasn't "reacted" harder and the spread of the virus is already slowing there: https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?location=Brazil&location=Canada&location=France&location=Germany&location=India&location=Italy&location=Japan&location=Russia&location=South+Korea&location=Spain&location=Sweden&location=US&location=United+Kingdom https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?location=Brazil&location=Ca...

bsder 6y ago

South Korea is also contemplating murder charges against a church. They also did massive contact tracing when they were still under 100 cases. South Korea took this massively seriously. As did Taiwan after Wuhan. Taiwan also rationed emergency supplies. Here's what Taiwan did: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taiwan-covid-19-lessons-1.5505031 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taiwan-covid-19-lessons-1.5... See any of those dividers in the US? Yeah, no, you can't even get people to put masks on. Japan seems to be cooking the books because of the Olympics even though that's simply not going to happen. Sweden is about to pass the US in cases and deaths per capita and is right about the same economics as the other European countries (which are all benefiting from their social safety net). Not sure that's counts as better than the rest of the EU--we'll see if it continues. Your economic claims are dubious. The primary difference is how fast a country reacted, not how hard. The problem is that if a country didn't react fast enough, it is then required that you react harder and longer.

logicchains 6y ago
>South Korea is also contemplating murder charges against a church. They also did massive contact tracing when they were still under 100 cases. South Korea took this massively seriously. >As did Taiwan after Wuhan. Taiwan also rationed emergency supplies. Here's what Taiwan did: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taiwan-covid-19-lessons-1.5.. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taiwan-covid-19-lessons-1.5.... But they didn't mass-close businesses. That's what causes the economic damage. >the same economics as the other European countries (which are all benefiting from their social safety net You sure about that? https://www.dw.com/en/as-coronavirus-lockdown-eases-italians-fear-bleak-future/a-53313932 https://www.dw.com/en/as-coronavirus-lockdown-eases-italians... , https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/23/unrest-hunger-and-hardship-in-france-s-locked-down-suburbs https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/23/unrest-hunger-and-hardsh... . > The problem is that if a country didn't react fast enough, it is then required that you react harder and longer. Required by what? Sweden hasn't "reacted" harder and the spread of the virus is already slowing there: https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?location=Brazil&location=Canada&location=France&location=Germany&location=India&location=Italy&location=Japan&location=Russia&location=South+Korea&location=Spain&location=Sweden&location=US&location=United+Kingdom https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?location=Brazil&location=Ca...