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> Signs of any organized effort or even participation in the violence were relatively rare. “I have not seen any clear evidence that white supremacists or milit

> Signs of any organized effort or even participation in the violence were relatively rare. “I have not seen any clear evidence that white supremacists or militiamen are masking up and going out to burn and loot,” said Howard Graves, a research analyst at the Southern Poverty Law Center who tracks white supremacist and other anti-government extremist groups. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-protests-white-supremacists-antifa.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-protests-...

mistermann 6y ago
White supremacists or militiamen (that can be specifically identified as such) no, but there seem to be a suspiciously high number of videos showing masked up young white kids who are cleary instigating destruction, and encouraging others to do so. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/law-enforcement-plays-catch-stop-violence-radical-groups-protests-n1220486 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/law-enfo... How true is all this? We'll likely never know, but it seems odd that the media and FBI seem to have very little interest in this very plausible scenario.
- ryanbrunner 6y ago
  In my experience, "masked young white kids who instigate destruction" have been a constant presence at protests for quite a while now, and the same debate about their motivations occurs every single time. I don't doubt that in some cases, provocateurs and false flag actors exist, but there's definitely a not insubstantial amount of anarchist-leaning folks who are acting genuinely. The important thing to consider, in my mind, is whether your attention should be focused on a relatively small amount of property damage and looting, or the many, many examples of physical violence against people committed by police. Property damage is almost always a distraction, and is often intentionally used as one.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    > The important thing to consider, in my mind, is whether your attention should be focused on a relatively small amount of property damage and looting, or the many, many examples of physical violence against people committed by police. Property damage is almost always a distraction, and is often intentionally used as one. That's the very point people are speculating about.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  I for one am happy to see the instigators get stopped, scolded and told off, etc. I've seen a clip today where some guy rocks up in a car to set off some fireworks, said fireworks gets yote back in his car. Another kid with his phone out tried to get people to tip a car over, he was hounded off. Why do protestors have to ensure some bad actors that try to hide amongst them don't take advantage of the situation? Causing destruction for a laugh is what the police is doing already.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    > Why do protestors have to ensure some bad actors that try to hide amongst them don't take advantage of the situation? Because the people we're told are responsible for such things (the police, and the media who are supposed to keep them honest) are not doing that job.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
> I have not seen Anecodtal evidence > said Howard Graves, a research analyst at the Southern Poverty Law Center Appeal to authority Your "source" does not cite sources or factual data, just an observation from someone. Your post and that piece of the NYT article holds no water because of the logical fallacies.

mistermann 6y ago

White supremacists or militiamen (that can be specifically identified as such) no, but there seem to be a suspiciously high number of videos showing masked up young white kids who are cleary instigating destruction, and encouraging others to do so. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/law-enforcement-plays-catch-stop-violence-radical-groups-protests-n1220486 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/law-enfo... How true is all this? We'll likely never know, but it seems odd that the media and FBI seem to have very little interest in this very plausible scenario.

ryanbrunner 6y ago
In my experience, "masked young white kids who instigate destruction" have been a constant presence at protests for quite a while now, and the same debate about their motivations occurs every single time. I don't doubt that in some cases, provocateurs and false flag actors exist, but there's definitely a not insubstantial amount of anarchist-leaning folks who are acting genuinely. The important thing to consider, in my mind, is whether your attention should be focused on a relatively small amount of property damage and looting, or the many, many examples of physical violence against people committed by police. Property damage is almost always a distraction, and is often intentionally used as one.
- mistermann 6y ago
  > The important thing to consider, in my mind, is whether your attention should be focused on a relatively small amount of property damage and looting, or the many, many examples of physical violence against people committed by police. Property damage is almost always a distraction, and is often intentionally used as one. That's the very point people are speculating about.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
I for one am happy to see the instigators get stopped, scolded and told off, etc. I've seen a clip today where some guy rocks up in a car to set off some fireworks, said fireworks gets yote back in his car. Another kid with his phone out tried to get people to tip a car over, he was hounded off. Why do protestors have to ensure some bad actors that try to hide amongst them don't take advantage of the situation? Causing destruction for a laugh is what the police is doing already.
- mistermann 6y ago
  > Why do protestors have to ensure some bad actors that try to hide amongst them don't take advantage of the situation? Because the people we're told are responsible for such things (the police, and the media who are supposed to keep them honest) are not doing that job.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

> I have not seen Anecodtal evidence > said Howard Graves, a research analyst at the Southern Poverty Law Center Appeal to authority Your "source" does not cite sources or factual data, just an observation from someone. Your post and that piece of the NYT article holds no water because of the logical fallacies.