5 ms·

Police Riot

112 points by ashtonkem 6y ago

readhn 6y ago
June Fourth Incident : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests Date: April 15 – June 4, 1989 (1 month, 2 weeks and 6 days) Location: 400 cities nationwide
- jedieaston 6y ago
  Link redirects to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests > Please submit the canonical URL. Avoid link shorteners. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - aspenmayer 6y ago
    Supplying an alternate link to circumvent a paywall or network routing issue is well within the rules of HN. You’re being pedantic. Who was harmed by the URL specifically? It was clearly and unambiguously labeled.
rz2k 6y ago
The 1992 police riot in New York associated with resistance to community review boards and Giuliani's mayoral ambitions[1] should probably be on that list. [1] https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/rudys-racist-rants-nypd-history-lesson https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/rudys-racist-ra...
jameoblameo 6y ago
The issue is, when its the police who determine whether someone is acting correctly, it's trivial for them to do this, as they can just rule that they were right and the protesters were wrong. The video from the Seattle protest yesterday was a great example of this. Fuck the police.
- jsf01 6y ago
  What video is that? What took place?
  - wdbbdw 6y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the_moment_it_all_happened/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the...
    - readhn 6y ago
      Thanks for sharing! This is insane.
readme 6y ago
It's certainly true that police instigate some of these riots, but how do you explain arson? Without listing the numerous acts of arson that have occurred, I think we could agree that it's farfetched to say that police have instigated those acts of arson. Even if they did, it would still not be correct to exact the revenge against the completely uninvolved property owners. There are bad police and there are bad protestors, good and evil are not evenly distributed across the two opposing sides. You might say the bad guys aren't really protestors, they're rioters. I'd also say that the bad cops aren't really cops, they're criminals. Please maintain an unbiased and neutral attitude when you think about the police. Not all of them are bad. It's really unfortunate that enough of them are that things like this happen. With that said the escalation of this conflict is almost 100% the fault of Trump.
- gotoeleven 6y ago
  Wait was the escalation when rioters started looting and burning stuff? or was it when they shot cops and bystanders? or maybe it was when they started having pallets of bricks deployed to protest areas? Nah, it was when trump sent in the national guard that governors requested.
  - readme 6y ago
    Trump sending in the national guard was not what escalated this. What escalated this was his usual politicizing of every event. By popping off on twitter with his now famous "when you start looting, we start shooting" tweet. The national guard could have been sent in without Trump, the governor of each state is in charge of the national guard of that state. Trump is just trying to take credit for what governors could and would have done unilaterally. (Oh hey, remember coronavirus? Same thing. Everything that happened was up to governors, his contribution was a net negative. Well, maybe not everything. There is what Mike Pence did, remember, he was "in charge" of everything!)
    - readme 6y ago
      Much like he's trying to politicize the response by putting GEN Milley "in charge" The Pentagon's official response was (paraphrasing) "GEN Milley's responsibilities have not changed; he will continue to advise the Sec Def and President" EDIT: I should also add, that he tricked GEN Milley into walking into a photo op in front of St. John's church. The military tries very hard to remain apolitical, and he duped the man into being part of a prop piece.
gotoeleven 6y ago
We're not the rioters you're the rioters!
dang 6y ago
Ok, between this one and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23395852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23395852, wikipedia submissions to HN have jumped the shark and we need to go back to penalizing them on HN. Generic repetition of the hottest topics is the opposite of what makes a good HN submission. Other recent posts about Wikipedia on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23249978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23249978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23117614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23117614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23239405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23239405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23089041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23089041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23274898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23274898
- ChrisGranger 6y ago
  I often click through to read posted Wikipedia articles, but I really wish the OP would also comment why they're posting a particular article and what their thoughts are on the subject. Basically, what makes this interesting?
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    I believe what we’re seeing in some cities constitutes a police riot, with cops instigating or creating violent clashes out of peaceful protests.
    - dang 6y ago
      I think that's perfectly good logic. It's just that the general theme has already had major discussion on HN, including on the front page when you posted this. The distinction between "police brutality" and "police riot" is without a difference; the internet does not do subtlety.
  - ima_banana 6y ago
    I think this is a great idea.
- 6y ago
bluedays 6y ago
The psychology for police brutality lately seems to be pretty simple. 1.) Accuse someone of acting inappropriately, and use "corrective force". If that action is real or not, is irrelevant. 2.) Should your victim react negatively then accuse the victim of resisting. Once the accusation is made, more than likely everyone begins to believe this narrative as the truth. 3.) Once the victim and other bystanders begin to react negatively treat them as hostile targets. These hostile civilians are now rioters. 4.) You have justification to violently shut down the riot. Now that protestors are acting with hostility they are no longer peacefully protesting. They are now rioting. 5.) Ruthlessly use force to ensure that all rioters are apprehended and shut down without question. 6.) Congratulate yourselves for shutting down a riot.

112 points by ashtonkem 6y ago

June Fourth Incident : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests Date: April 15 – June 4, 1989 (1 month, 2 weeks and 6 days) Location: 400 cities nationwide

jedieaston 6y ago
Link redirects to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests > Please submit the canonical URL. Avoid link shorteners. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- aspenmayer 6y ago
  Supplying an alternate link to circumvent a paywall or network routing issue is well within the rules of HN. You’re being pedantic. Who was harmed by the URL specifically? It was clearly and unambiguously labeled.

rz2k 6y ago

The 1992 police riot in New York associated with resistance to community review boards and Giuliani's mayoral ambitions[1] should probably be on that list. [1] https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/rudys-racist-rants-nypd-history-lesson https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/rudys-racist-ra...

jameoblameo 6y ago

The issue is, when its the police who determine whether someone is acting correctly, it's trivial for them to do this, as they can just rule that they were right and the protesters were wrong. The video from the Seattle protest yesterday was a great example of this. Fuck the police.

jsf01 6y ago
What video is that? What took place?
- wdbbdw 6y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the_moment_it_all_happened/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the...
  - readhn 6y ago
    Thanks for sharing! This is insane.

readme 6y ago

It's certainly true that police instigate some of these riots, but how do you explain arson? Without listing the numerous acts of arson that have occurred, I think we could agree that it's farfetched to say that police have instigated those acts of arson. Even if they did, it would still not be correct to exact the revenge against the completely uninvolved property owners. There are bad police and there are bad protestors, good and evil are not evenly distributed across the two opposing sides. You might say the bad guys aren't really protestors, they're rioters. I'd also say that the bad cops aren't really cops, they're criminals. Please maintain an unbiased and neutral attitude when you think about the police. Not all of them are bad. It's really unfortunate that enough of them are that things like this happen. With that said the escalation of this conflict is almost 100% the fault of Trump.

gotoeleven 6y ago
Wait was the escalation when rioters started looting and burning stuff? or was it when they shot cops and bystanders? or maybe it was when they started having pallets of bricks deployed to protest areas? Nah, it was when trump sent in the national guard that governors requested.
- readme 6y ago
  Trump sending in the national guard was not what escalated this. What escalated this was his usual politicizing of every event. By popping off on twitter with his now famous "when you start looting, we start shooting" tweet. The national guard could have been sent in without Trump, the governor of each state is in charge of the national guard of that state. Trump is just trying to take credit for what governors could and would have done unilaterally. (Oh hey, remember coronavirus? Same thing. Everything that happened was up to governors, his contribution was a net negative. Well, maybe not everything. There is what Mike Pence did, remember, he was "in charge" of everything!)
  - readme 6y ago
    Much like he's trying to politicize the response by putting GEN Milley "in charge" The Pentagon's official response was (paraphrasing) "GEN Milley's responsibilities have not changed; he will continue to advise the Sec Def and President" EDIT: I should also add, that he tricked GEN Milley into walking into a photo op in front of St. John's church. The military tries very hard to remain apolitical, and he duped the man into being part of a prop piece.

gotoeleven 6y ago

We're not the rioters you're the rioters!

dang 6y ago

Ok, between this one and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23395852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23395852, wikipedia submissions to HN have jumped the shark and we need to go back to penalizing them on HN. Generic repetition of the hottest topics is the opposite of what makes a good HN submission. Other recent posts about Wikipedia on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23249978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23249978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23117614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23117614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23239405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23239405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23089041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23089041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23274898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23274898

ChrisGranger 6y ago
I often click through to read posted Wikipedia articles, but I really wish the OP would also comment why they're posting a particular article and what their thoughts are on the subject. Basically, what makes this interesting?
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  I believe what we’re seeing in some cities constitutes a police riot, with cops instigating or creating violent clashes out of peaceful protests.
  - dang 6y ago
    I think that's perfectly good logic. It's just that the general theme has already had major discussion on HN, including on the front page when you posted this. The distinction between "police brutality" and "police riot" is without a difference; the internet does not do subtlety.
- ima_banana 6y ago
  I think this is a great idea.
6y ago

bluedays 6y ago

The psychology for police brutality lately seems to be pretty simple. 1.) Accuse someone of acting inappropriately, and use "corrective force". If that action is real or not, is irrelevant. 2.) Should your victim react negatively then accuse the victim of resisting. Once the accusation is made, more than likely everyone begins to believe this narrative as the truth. 3.) Once the victim and other bystanders begin to react negatively treat them as hostile targets. These hostile civilians are now rioters. 4.) You have justification to violently shut down the riot. Now that protestors are acting with hostility they are no longer peacefully protesting. They are now rioting. 5.) Ruthlessly use force to ensure that all rioters are apprehended and shut down without question. 6.) Congratulate yourselves for shutting down a riot.