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In a small suburb of San Diego the protest stopped traffic. Police forced the protesters off and then riots started and two banks were burnt down. Two weeks ag

• kortilla 6y ago
  Stopping traffic risks the lives of people in ambulances so it’s pretty hard to condone that. Make noise, block access to some businesses, etc, but don’t block streets and cause traffic jams that could kill people FFS.
  • jascii 6y ago
    I have never in my life seen an ambulance be stopped by a protest, nor have ever heard of such an incident ever occuring.
    • drocer88 6y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IfyI69IQSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IfyI69IQSg
    • marcusverus 6y ago
      Not a protest, but this exact thing occurred during the Fort Lee Lane closure scandal, when people intentionally created road closures in New Jersey. This was national news for awhile [0] Also, a lack of media coverage for a thing doesn't mean it doesn't happen, nor does rampant media coverage mean a thing is common. Remember the summer of the shark? [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_the_Shark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_the_Shark
      • gdubs 6y ago
        It’s a lot harder for cars stuck on a bridge to move out of the way than it is for a crowd of people though, right?
        • Thorrez 6y ago
          If there's an ambulance stuck, it might be stuck behind a bunch of cars that can't move.
    • ABeeSea 6y ago
      The armed right-wing lockdown protestors blocked an ambulance. And a right-wing governor threw a tantrum that blocked ambulances.
      • testbot123 6y ago
        Not sure why you're being downvoted. There is documented evidence of this: > "To see this - traffic blocking the main intersection of a level 1 trauma centre, blocking the entrance and exit to our hospital. Blocking patients from receiving care that they need, makes me angry. It hurts. It hurts a lot," said one healthcare worker on Facebook. > WLNS reports another posting: "You are currently blocking ambulances, physicians and caregivers from making it to work to care for the sick and relieve the exhausted workers. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/operation-gridlock-lansing-michigan-protest-ambulance-gretchen-whitmer-social-distancing-coronavirus-a9468756.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... Quotes a local news story: https://www.wlns.com/news/health/coronavirus/capitol-protesters-snarl-streets-including-sparrow-hospital-area/ https://www.wlns.com/news/health/coronavirus/capitol-protest...
        • grandmczeb 6y ago
          That first story is repeating a (false) rumor. Even the second story you posted directly contradicts it. > Sparrow spokesperson John Foren said there are no access problems and ambulances can “get in and out. There’s no problem.” https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/04/21/police-rebut-whitmer-claims-ambulances-blocked-protest-traffic/5169518002/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/0...
          • testbot123 6y ago
            You're correct, I apologize.
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    • dbsmith83 6y ago
      There are a lot of people out there who have important things that have to do with their health. Just because someone is not in an ambulance doesn't mean they don't have somewhere important to be. Not everyone with a medical condition rides in an ambulance.
      • JamesBarney 6y ago
        But the vast majority of medical conditions where routing around a protest or road closure would cause serious harm to an individual are probably in ambulances.
        • dbsmith83 6y ago
          Not really sure what your point is regarding 'vast majority'. How many people's lives are acceptable to endanger? Just today, an interstate was shut down unexpectedly because of protesters. What about everyone who was trapped on that highway and could not move, let alone reroute?
          • JamesBarney 6y ago
            The same amount that is endangered for a parade, a presidential motorcade, or road construction.
            • dbsmith83 6y ago
              That is a terrible analogy. The key difference is that parades, motorcades, and road construction are planned events. Protesters who unexpectedly stop traffic do not give people opportunity to plan. side comment: Loving the downvotes for a legitimate point. When did hacker news turn into reddit?
              • JamesBarney 6y ago
                If you need to get to a hospital they all slow you down, doesn't matter how planned the event is.
    • rlt 6y ago
      Not an ambulance, but the fire department was (allegedly) blocked from reaching an occupied burning building in Richmond (VA) yesterday: https://youtu.be/AEncQKV8k_0?t=205 https://youtu.be/AEncQKV8k_0?t=205
    • Natsu 6y ago
      When a Trump rally was protested back around 2016 in Phoenix, an ambulance was blocked.
  • adjkant 6y ago
    Protests have been regularly shown to let emergency vehicles through, I saw videos of this yesterday.
    • HoolaBoola 6y ago
      Usually "I saw videos of this" isn't a good argument, though I do agree. I've yet to see any proof of protests causing an emergency vehicle to arrive too late, while there are numerous counterexamples. The most memorable to me was the video of a street absolutely packed in France where they made room for the ambulance to drive through.
    • MDWolinski 6y ago
      Except for the "Open States Up" protests that occurred that had hospital personal begging the protestors to let the emergency vehicles through. But that's a different type of crowd.
      • grandmczeb 6y ago
        This is a commonly repeated rumor about the Michigan lockdown protests, but its absolutely not true[1]. "Despite some "confusion," Lansing police had no complaints about any ambulance being locked in traffic during an emergency, said Robert Merritt, a spokesman for the Lansing Police Department. When ambulances on non-emergency runs were in traffic, "rally participants slowly cleared a path," he said." [1] https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/04/21/police-rebut-whitmer-claims-ambulances-blocked-protest-traffic/5169518002/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/0...
      • mcv 6y ago
        I don't remember hearing anything about police dispersing those crowds with tear gas. I wonder why.
        • benmw333 6y ago
          I'm gunna go ahead and assume it was due to the the lack of violence and looting.
  • mikepurvis 6y ago
    "What about" is not a helpful question here. Stay focused on the main issues.
  • newacct583 6y ago
    > it’s pretty hard to condone that You don't have to condone it. The question is whether it's appropriate to escalate to violence to stop it. And it clearly isn't, even from the very narrow perspective of the police. The phone video shot two days ago energized the huge protests yesterday, who ended up getting gassed out of a church in DC so the president could hold up a bible, which is driving literally millions more people into the streets. Let them do their thing, and everyone will get bored. Yes, it's a dick move to block an intersection. But we don't tear gas routine assholes, right?
    • filoleg 6y ago
      >Let them do their thing, and everyone will get bored. Yes, it's a dick move to block an intersection. But we don't tear gas routine assholes, right? Never thought of it this way before, but this train of thought strongly resonates with me and makes sense. Thanks for posting it.
      • michaelchisari 6y ago
        De-escalation Keeps Protesters And Police Safer. Departments Respond With Force Anyway. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/de-escalation-keeps-protesters-and-police-safer-heres-why-departments-respond-with-force-anyway/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/de-escalation-keeps-pro...
  • kayfox 6y ago
    Your of course assuming that ambulance services don't track the protests and route around them as much as possible.
    • jariel 6y ago
      There is absolutely no need for emergency services to track pop-up protests, the very notion is absurd. We don't have the right to block traffic to promote our political opinions. When protestors block traffic, if the city decides they have to go, and they won't - in those situations, it's the protesters who are 'instigating', not the police. NRA 2cnd amendment protestors, pro/anti-abortion protestors, anti-capitalist - whatever we want it doesn't matter. If the protest violates the local or regional ordinance, and the city asks protesters to move (and they do in many cases allow the protesters to stay) - they have to move, if they don't move, it's not the police's fault that they are literally required by us, the community, to move people. Edit: I would like to invite anyone to define exactly under what conditions people think they have the right to stop traffic at major intersections for hours on end, other than of course signalling to the city beforehand.
      • baseballdork 6y ago
        > I would like to invite anyone to define exactly under what conditions people think they have the right to stop traffic at major intersections for hours on end, other than of course signalling to the city beforehand. When peaceful protests have failed to affect change and police brutality (especially for POC) is continuing unabated.
        • jariel 6y ago
          I'll respond to this comment here on behalf of all of the responses to my point: None of you have provided any reasonably objective definition of what could constitute an otherwise illegal, and sometimes violent protest. These responses sound a lot like right-wing NRA 2cnd Amendment people barricading in buildings with guns and police surrounding them kind of rhetoric. All three of the responses (at the time of my response) purport arbitrary definitions of self-determined, extra-judicial action - essentially vigilantism. Literally, people inventing some cause and then taking over public property, sometimes causing damage, or worse. If you accept your own definitions of 'legitimate cause' - I'm afraid you're really not going to like what a lot of other Americans would like to protest, just as violently. If people are going to protest, especially when things can get violent, they're going to have to do so in a way that's not entirely disruptive -> like gather in a park, otherwise, it's just not going to work out. We don't get to invent the law, no matter how passionate we are about something. There are just a ton of better ways to create change that are totally within civil and legal framework, and there are many good examples to follow. And especially the rioting is probably counter-productive in almost every sense of the terms.
  • asveikau 6y ago
    Blocking traffic might reduce auto accidents, saving lives. How many of those ambulances are responding to auto accidents that could have been prevented?
  • rumanator 6y ago
    > Stopping traffic risks the lives of people in ambulances so it’s pretty hard to condone that. Social media is clogged with live footage from the protests. Can you find a single video of an ambulance being stopped by protests? The irony of your comment is that the likelihood of an ambulance being close to a protest is linked to the extreme violence that the police is using to attack and repress protests against police violence.
    • kortilla 6y ago
      > Can you find a single video of an ambulance being stopped by protests? Why would anyone make a video of stopped traffic?
      • Thorrez 6y ago
        If there was a stopped ambulance with its siren on, people would find that very interesting and record it. This isn't some boring traffic jam, it's very political. Anyways, if you're trapped in traffic and not moving, there's not much else for you to do besides get out your phone and take some video.
      • rumanator 6y ago
        > Why would anyone make a video of stopped traffic? Because people like you are hell bent on smearing the protests, resorting even to come up with made-up accusations like ambulances stuck in traffic, and any evidence would provide some support to those claims. But apparently even that is hard to come by. So here we are, stuck with fabrications and imaginary "what if" scenarios.
  • Polylactic_acid 6y ago
    You can see in the HK protests the sea of people instantly parts to form a path for ambulances. American protesters just need to learn these advanced coordination tactics.
  • brian-armstrong 6y ago
    This is a pretty short-sighted argument, isn't it? Surely the long-term harm from systemic issues people protest against (namely, police brutality) will claim many more lives than a few weeks of blocked street intersections downtown.
  • zaarn 6y ago
    Where I live you have to send the places and waypoints your protest will take before you start one so that emergency services can route around protest and have some units on standby in case things go wrong.
  • mrcorona 6y ago
    If one person dies in an ambulance (which has never to my knowledge happened in the current protests), you think that is a more important problem to address than 1000 people getting extrajudicially executed by police in 2019? Concern trolling?
• filoeleven 6y ago
  > (why forced oral sex is not rape I’m not sure) The justice dept definition as updated in 2012 would include this. I don’t know how that plays out in state law, but what I’ve read points to that being the definition for state charges too. Doesn’t help when it’s not enforced, which is clearly the case here since the officer didn’t have to register as a sex offender either. https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/blog/updated-definition-rape https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/blog/updated-definition...