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> I believe when the community gets this sort of deeply inaccurate reflection of itself, it encourages a "why bother" sentiment Tbh though, on some topics, "wh

> I believe when the community gets this sort of deeply inaccurate reflection of itself, it encourages a "why bother" sentiment Tbh though, on some topics, "why bother" is accurate. You can write a comment that is controversial, but it will be heavily downvoted and flagged, so indeed: why bother? The Overton Window on HN isn't as large as it appears, but it's generally accepted that you can say what you want as long as it's within these narrow limits. What you're saying about the shock value of encountering different opinions for the first time is probably true (for some more so than others, I believe), but it doesn't change the issue that, on controversial topics, actually engaging the outraged and offering a different point of view does not seem useful. After a bunch of unspoken "fuck you" flags, "why bother" is what's keeping the site civil. If people are emotional and cannot be reached by words, don't try to talk to them unless you want to fight them. "Why bother" is deescalation.

dang 6y ago
I didn't mean "why bother saying anything". I meant "why bother treating other people well". If I have the image that no one else is restraining themselves or putting effort into being thoughtful and respectful, then why should I bother making the effort? That's what leads to "fuck you". The thing is, that image of HN is actually wrong. We all need to become aware of how strong the biases are that lead to it, lest we end up destroying the very thing we wish for.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
actually engaging the outraged and offering a different point of view does not seem useful. You don't have to engage the outraged. It's not a best practice to go actively looking for the people openly and vehemently opposed to you and your views. I'm a social creature and I have something of a tendency to reply to other comments instead of leaving a top level stand alone comment. I also have a lot of controversial opinions and I'm a magnet for controversy in part simply because I'm a demographic outlier for the audience here. Sometimes, it's best to make those stand alone comments instead of replying to an existing comment. Sometimes that's the way to deescalate without being silenced on the topic.
- luckylion 6y ago
  You're right that it may arouse less anger if you don't reply, but I don't know that it works reliably. I've seen plenty of top-level comments flagged as well. So much so that I've switched off show-dead because it annoyed me so much to see the harmlessness of comments that were flagged down. Better to ignore it instead of getting angry. And it feels like a workaround instead of a fix. Like a jolt of pain every time you put weight on your left leg and deciding to just not put weight on it. It does mitigate the symptom, but it doesn't solve the problem.
  - deleted 6y ago
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dang 6y ago

I didn't mean "why bother saying anything". I meant "why bother treating other people well". If I have the image that no one else is restraining themselves or putting effort into being thoughtful and respectful, then why should I bother making the effort? That's what leads to "fuck you". The thing is, that image of HN is actually wrong. We all need to become aware of how strong the biases are that lead to it, lest we end up destroying the very thing we wish for.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

actually engaging the outraged and offering a different point of view does not seem useful. You don't have to engage the outraged. It's not a best practice to go actively looking for the people openly and vehemently opposed to you and your views. I'm a social creature and I have something of a tendency to reply to other comments instead of leaving a top level stand alone comment. I also have a lot of controversial opinions and I'm a magnet for controversy in part simply because I'm a demographic outlier for the audience here. Sometimes, it's best to make those stand alone comments instead of replying to an existing comment. Sometimes that's the way to deescalate without being silenced on the topic.

luckylion 6y ago
You're right that it may arouse less anger if you don't reply, but I don't know that it works reliably. I've seen plenty of top-level comments flagged as well. So much so that I've switched off show-dead because it annoyed me so much to see the harmlessness of comments that were flagged down. Better to ignore it instead of getting angry. And it feels like a workaround instead of a fix. Like a jolt of pain every time you put weight on your left leg and deciding to just not put weight on it. It does mitigate the symptom, but it doesn't solve the problem.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]