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"numerous videos show police breaking windows themselves" I don't believe you. The umbrella guy breaking the AutoZone window with a hammer has no connection t

"numerous videos show police breaking windows themselves" I don't believe you. The umbrella guy breaking the AutoZone window with a hammer has no connection to any police department. Someone made that up on social media and people shared it because that's what people do. The only video I know of showing officers breaking a window is out of Seattle. It shows officers responding to a burglary in progress at a Target store. The officers had to chip away at the already broken glass windows so they could safely get in. (The burglars had broken the glass to get inside.) Once inside, the responding officers found and arrested the three burglars they had come for.

stonogo 6y ago
Here you go. https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/gv2ogk/news_chopper_pans_out_as_riverside_county_sheriff/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/gv2ogk/news_ch...
- ilyaeck 6y ago
  More people should see this!
- monoideism 6y ago
  That looks very suspicious, but if this were really a widespread technique by the police, I'm assuming there would be more than a single video taken. I mean, we know the black bloc and similar groups engages in these tactics, they've been doing it since Seattle WTO 1999. I've seen it in person to protests I've been to (as a protester). It's very hard for me to believe that all of a sudden those people are no longer active in protests, and their place has been taken by (insert your politically-convenient group here).
  - vb6sp6 6y ago
    "This doesn't happen" (shows a video of it happening) "This isn't widespread" So how many videos do you need to see? 2? 10? 15???
    - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
      Would you find it acceptable to shoot some footage of a handful of looting/arsonist incidents and proclaiming “protesters are doing X”, just like we are complaining that “police” are doing X? Or would you correct someone and say that isn’t happening, and when confronted with a video of someone somewhere doing a bad thing, inform them of the fact that a few cherry picked anecdotes do not represent the activity of the broader population? You don’t have to answer.
      - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
        No one disagrees that in any group only a small number of bad actors are causing this issue. However, when a civilian acts inappropriately there are legal consequences. When a police office acts inappropriately there are few legal consequences and they are very-very-rarely enforced. I'll ask the question differently, "Is destruction of property what you expect from rioters?" Yes, 1% or less of rioters are going to be stupid. "Should they be reprimanded?" Sadly yes, and we have specialized government entities that can utilize appropriate-force to reprimand them. "Is destruction of property what you expect from police?" No, not even from the 1% or less that want to be stupid. That is unacceptable, their job is to protect and serve. Even from each other. "Should they be reprimanded?" Yes! but we as civilians have no legal way to do this, and even the "good cops" have no good way to do this. What are your answers to these questions lawnchair_larry?
        lawnchair_larry 6y ago
        Aha, but the analogy that you made with those questions has a critical error. The correct analogy would be questions that read: Is destruction of property what you expect from civilians? Yes, sadly, 1% or less[1] of civilians are are going to be stupid and riot instead. And that is unacceptable. Should they be reprimanded? Absolutely. And we have specialized government entities that can utilize appropriate-force to reprimand them. Is unwarranted destruction of property what you expect from police? Yes, sadly, 1% or less[1] of police are going to be stupid and abusive. That is unacceptable, their job is to protect and serve. Even from each other. Should they be reprimanded? Yes! but we as civilians have no legal way to do this, and even the "good cops" have no good way to do this. [1] We do not have data for either of these figures, so 1% is being used as a placeholder, and is not meant literally. I suspect that the percentage of criminals in the general population is far bigger than the number of police who destroy property for no reason, but I admit that I have no data for that.
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > That looks very suspicious, but if this were really a widespread technique by the police Giving your comment the benefit of the doubt, that does not address the fact that a while platoon of police officers witnessed a fellow police officer vandalize public property without any reason or justification, and they didn't even flinched or complained or even frowned upon that brand of unprovoked abuse. That's pretty much one of the central points of the whole protest.
    - slg 6y ago
      > they didn't even flinched or complained or even frowned upon that brand of unprovoked abuse I have seen dozens if not over a hundred videos of the police acting inappropriately over the last few days. I have only seen a single video in which any of them were stopped or reprimanded by another cop and that one "good cop" was a woman of color. If this inappropriate behavior is done by such a small percentage of the police force and is frowned on by all the other good cops, why is there so little evidence of police policing themselves?
      - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
        Have you seen dozens or hundreds of videos of civilians acting inappropriately? If a “woman of color” was seen starting a fire, would you be comfortable saying things like “black women start fires”? I sure hope not. Even if you had dozens of examples, it would still be wrong to make such a statement.
        slg 6y ago
        >Have you seen dozens or hundreds of videos of civilians acting inappropriately? Yes. I have also seen countless videos in which civilians were reprimanded by other citizens for acting inappropriately. They are trying to police themselves. Why can't the police police themselves? >If a “woman of color” was seen starting a fire, would you be comfortable saying things like “black women start fires”? I sure hope not. Even if you had dozens of examples, it would still be wrong to make such a statement. I don't know what you are trying to insinuate with this comment. I was not making any blanket statements about anyone beyond the general group of "police".
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
    https://old.reddit.com/r/actualpublicfreakouts https://old.reddit.com/r/actualpublicfreakouts https://old.reddit.com/r/2020policebrutality https://old.reddit.com/r/2020policebrutality Are both accumulating quite a lot of evidence that police are using force recklessly and capriciously under the color of law without consequences.
  - RangerScience 6y ago
    > we know the black bloc and similar groups engages in these tactics How do you know this? What's the process by which you established this as a known thing?
    - monoideism 6y ago
      > What's the process by which you established this as a known thing? Primary, by power of observation. But OK, I'll make this as vague and 100% foolproof as I can, to start: there are people who dress in black, and masks, and destroy stuff and commit violence at protests. That's from actual observation. It's not just 1-2, there are groups of them. That's my personal observation from being at 2 protests with such groups. Now, combine that with all the sources references in this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc Along with many, many, many dozens of media reports like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr0i6piW_ak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr0i6piW_ak I'm able to discern a certain pattern.
      - bigiain 6y ago
        People who dress in black and destroy stuff like this guy? https://eurweb.com/2020/05/29/jacob-pederson-minneapolis-police-officer-accused-of-starting-minneapolis-riot-watch/ https://eurweb.com/2020/05/29/jacob-pederson-minneapolis-pol... Yeah, I smell a pattern too...
        monoideism 6y ago
        OK, so what was the group dressed like that in black who were doing it in the video I posted, in the Trump inauguration? That guy is textbook black bloc. There are hundreds of mainstream media videos showing guys dressed like him burning and destroying in prior protests, from Seattle WTO 1999, to Occupy, to more recent protests. I urge HNers to read that article you posted and decide for themselves if it's credible. Then, read the wikipedia article I posted, refer to the sources at the end, google around, and decide for yourself.
        6y ago
  - jascii 6y ago
    "Agent Provocateurs" are an old and well documented technique with examples varying from history through the civil rights era to the current day protests.
    - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
      That is not what they do though. On the other hand, it is what black bloc rioters do.
    - bigiain 6y ago
      https://eurweb.com/2020/05/29/jacob-pederson-minneapolis-police-officer-accused-of-starting-minneapolis-riot-watch/ https://eurweb.com/2020/05/29/jacob-pederson-minneapolis-pol... Hard to evaluate the accuracy of that story. But it's also hard to dismiss it out of hand, given known true police behaviour. A very common view from the public is that cops are totally capable of that kind of behaviour. And whether the story about the cop setting the first fire is true our not, the believability of the story is as much a problem as the possible truth of the story.
  - skoskie 6y ago
    I find the bigger issue to be the videos of police doing nothing to thwart blatant vandalism, and the contrast of those videos with the unprovoked attacks on what appear to be peaceful protesters. The “politically convenient group” seems to be anyone being destructive, like ... https://twitter.com/SARAHKSTUDIO/status/1267371809084567554/video/1 https://twitter.com/SARAHKSTUDIO/status/1267371809084567554/... ... white women? The sum of causing unnecessary damage and turning a blind eye to vandalism at least gives me confidence that there is a desire by many police officers to see property destroyed. From that I can only guess at what the reasoning might be, but given that we’ve seen this method of undermining protests in the past, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume racist intent until there is evidence that begins to support an alternative conclusion.
    - lenkite 6y ago
      Considering that police are being beaten badly and some killed attempting to stop "protestors", I think it's not surprising that many have chosen to do nothing. Better safe than sorry. Actually, there are dozens of different videos showing police being badly beaten as they attempt to stop vandalism. They just don't make the news as this isn't "progressive". https://abcnews.go.com/US/small-town-police-chief-killed-officers-cities-wounded/story?id=71017820 https://abcnews.go.com/US/small-town-police-chief-killed-off... https://www.insider.com/george-floyd-protests-violence-against-nypd-bronx-videos-2020-6 https://www.insider.com/george-floyd-protests-violence-again...
      - freeone3000 6y ago
        So is this how we've decided it's going to be? We have all protesters on one side, and if any protesters do anything bad, all get punished? (I also find some moderate irony in you claiming something doesn't make the news, then linking a news website.)
        lenkite 6y ago
        I can link a dozen twitter videos showing all kinds of people getting badly beat up by protestors - none of which ever made the news as it doesn't fit the progressive narrative - but I don't think its worth it. And frankly, it's not hard to find these by yourself. Everyone now considers general violence and looting as legitimate actions in response to a crime committed by one police officer. Floyd's death was a tragedy and Derek (the police officer) responsible must pay heavily for it - a 2nd or 3rd degree murder conviction should be handed down to set an example. That case should be scrutinised heavily - and it will be. But I really don't understand why other people must suffer for one person's crime. The larger focus should be on the US police needing remedial training. Call up congressmen, call up senators. Rioting on the streets doesn't solve anything.
- fzeroracer 6y ago
  How much clearer can you get that the police are committing property destruction and using it to blame protesters? Like there is no justification for the police doing this outside of using to make their own narrative so that they can bust some heads at the next protest.
- TLightful 6y ago
  He just had a nervous twitch.
- SpelingBeeChamp 6y ago
  "numerous videos show police breaking windows themselves" I replied "I don't believe you." You responded by showing one video. I'm still waiting.
deleted 6y ago
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jwilber 6y ago
Multiple people have replied with evidence in this thread. I don’t know your view on the matter, but somehow I doubt that seeing videos will do anything to change your view on the matter anyway. I say this because in a thread about police brutality, you cherry-pick an argument counter to what videos have already shown. I do hope the continuing videos showcasing police brutality, during protests OF police brutality, do something to convince people that it is a very real problem.

stonogo 6y ago

Here you go. https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/gv2ogk/news_chopper_pans_out_as_riverside_county_sheriff/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/gv2ogk/news_ch...

ilyaeck 6y ago
More people should see this!
monoideism 6y ago
That looks very suspicious, but if this were really a widespread technique by the police, I'm assuming there would be more than a single video taken. I mean, we know the black bloc and similar groups engages in these tactics, they've been doing it since Seattle WTO 1999. I've seen it in person to protests I've been to (as a protester). It's very hard for me to believe that all of a sudden those people are no longer active in protests, and their place has been taken by (insert your politically-convenient group here).
- vb6sp6 6y ago
  "This doesn't happen" (shows a video of it happening) "This isn't widespread" So how many videos do you need to see? 2? 10? 15???
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    Would you find it acceptable to shoot some footage of a handful of looting/arsonist incidents and proclaiming “protesters are doing X”, just like we are complaining that “police” are doing X? Or would you correct someone and say that isn’t happening, and when confronted with a video of someone somewhere doing a bad thing, inform them of the fact that a few cherry picked anecdotes do not represent the activity of the broader population? You don’t have to answer.
    - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
      No one disagrees that in any group only a small number of bad actors are causing this issue. However, when a civilian acts inappropriately there are legal consequences. When a police office acts inappropriately there are few legal consequences and they are very-very-rarely enforced. I'll ask the question differently, "Is destruction of property what you expect from rioters?" Yes, 1% or less of rioters are going to be stupid. "Should they be reprimanded?" Sadly yes, and we have specialized government entities that can utilize appropriate-force to reprimand them. "Is destruction of property what you expect from police?" No, not even from the 1% or less that want to be stupid. That is unacceptable, their job is to protect and serve. Even from each other. "Should they be reprimanded?" Yes! but we as civilians have no legal way to do this, and even the "good cops" have no good way to do this. What are your answers to these questions lawnchair_larry?
      - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
        Aha, but the analogy that you made with those questions has a critical error. The correct analogy would be questions that read: Is destruction of property what you expect from civilians? Yes, sadly, 1% or less[1] of civilians are are going to be stupid and riot instead. And that is unacceptable. Should they be reprimanded? Absolutely. And we have specialized government entities that can utilize appropriate-force to reprimand them. Is unwarranted destruction of property what you expect from police? Yes, sadly, 1% or less[1] of police are going to be stupid and abusive. That is unacceptable, their job is to protect and serve. Even from each other. Should they be reprimanded? Yes! but we as civilians have no legal way to do this, and even the "good cops" have no good way to do this. [1] We do not have data for either of these figures, so 1% is being used as a placeholder, and is not meant literally. I suspect that the percentage of criminals in the general population is far bigger than the number of police who destroy property for no reason, but I admit that I have no data for that.
- rumanator 6y ago
  > That looks very suspicious, but if this were really a widespread technique by the police Giving your comment the benefit of the doubt, that does not address the fact that a while platoon of police officers witnessed a fellow police officer vandalize public property without any reason or justification, and they didn't even flinched or complained or even frowned upon that brand of unprovoked abuse. That's pretty much one of the central points of the whole protest.
  - slg 6y ago
    > they didn't even flinched or complained or even frowned upon that brand of unprovoked abuse I have seen dozens if not over a hundred videos of the police acting inappropriately over the last few days. I have only seen a single video in which any of them were stopped or reprimanded by another cop and that one "good cop" was a woman of color. If this inappropriate behavior is done by such a small percentage of the police force and is frowned on by all the other good cops, why is there so little evidence of police policing themselves?
    - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
      Have you seen dozens or hundreds of videos of civilians acting inappropriately? If a “woman of color” was seen starting a fire, would you be comfortable saying things like “black women start fires”? I sure hope not. Even if you had dozens of examples, it would still be wrong to make such a statement.
      - slg 6y ago
        >Have you seen dozens or hundreds of videos of civilians acting inappropriately? Yes. I have also seen countless videos in which civilians were reprimanded by other citizens for acting inappropriately. They are trying to police themselves. Why can't the police police themselves? >If a “woman of color” was seen starting a fire, would you be comfortable saying things like “black women start fires”? I sure hope not. Even if you had dozens of examples, it would still be wrong to make such a statement. I don't know what you are trying to insinuate with this comment. I was not making any blanket statements about anyone beyond the general group of "police".
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  https://old.reddit.com/r/actualpublicfreakouts https://old.reddit.com/r/actualpublicfreakouts https://old.reddit.com/r/2020policebrutality https://old.reddit.com/r/2020policebrutality Are both accumulating quite a lot of evidence that police are using force recklessly and capriciously under the color of law without consequences.
- RangerScience 6y ago
  > we know the black bloc and similar groups engages in these tactics How do you know this? What's the process by which you established this as a known thing?
  - monoideism 6y ago
    > What's the process by which you established this as a known thing? Primary, by power of observation. But OK, I'll make this as vague and 100% foolproof as I can, to start: there are people who dress in black, and masks, and destroy stuff and commit violence at protests. That's from actual observation. It's not just 1-2, there are groups of them. That's my personal observation from being at 2 protests with such groups. Now, combine that with all the sources references in this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc Along with many, many, many dozens of media reports like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr0i6piW_ak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr0i6piW_ak I'm able to discern a certain pattern.
    - bigiain 6y ago
      People who dress in black and destroy stuff like this guy? https://eurweb.com/2020/05/29/jacob-pederson-minneapolis-police-officer-accused-of-starting-minneapolis-riot-watch/ https://eurweb.com/2020/05/29/jacob-pederson-minneapolis-pol... Yeah, I smell a pattern too...
      - monoideism 6y ago
        OK, so what was the group dressed like that in black who were doing it in the video I posted, in the Trump inauguration? That guy is textbook black bloc. There are hundreds of mainstream media videos showing guys dressed like him burning and destroying in prior protests, from Seattle WTO 1999, to Occupy, to more recent protests. I urge HNers to read that article you posted and decide for themselves if it's credible. Then, read the wikipedia article I posted, refer to the sources at the end, google around, and decide for yourself.
        6y ago
- jascii 6y ago
  "Agent Provocateurs" are an old and well documented technique with examples varying from history through the civil rights era to the current day protests.
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    That is not what they do though. On the other hand, it is what black bloc rioters do.
  - bigiain 6y ago
    https://eurweb.com/2020/05/29/jacob-pederson-minneapolis-police-officer-accused-of-starting-minneapolis-riot-watch/ https://eurweb.com/2020/05/29/jacob-pederson-minneapolis-pol... Hard to evaluate the accuracy of that story. But it's also hard to dismiss it out of hand, given known true police behaviour. A very common view from the public is that cops are totally capable of that kind of behaviour. And whether the story about the cop setting the first fire is true our not, the believability of the story is as much a problem as the possible truth of the story.
- skoskie 6y ago
  I find the bigger issue to be the videos of police doing nothing to thwart blatant vandalism, and the contrast of those videos with the unprovoked attacks on what appear to be peaceful protesters. The “politically convenient group” seems to be anyone being destructive, like ... https://twitter.com/SARAHKSTUDIO/status/1267371809084567554/video/1 https://twitter.com/SARAHKSTUDIO/status/1267371809084567554/... ... white women? The sum of causing unnecessary damage and turning a blind eye to vandalism at least gives me confidence that there is a desire by many police officers to see property destroyed. From that I can only guess at what the reasoning might be, but given that we’ve seen this method of undermining protests in the past, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume racist intent until there is evidence that begins to support an alternative conclusion.
  - lenkite 6y ago
    Considering that police are being beaten badly and some killed attempting to stop "protestors", I think it's not surprising that many have chosen to do nothing. Better safe than sorry. Actually, there are dozens of different videos showing police being badly beaten as they attempt to stop vandalism. They just don't make the news as this isn't "progressive". https://abcnews.go.com/US/small-town-police-chief-killed-officers-cities-wounded/story?id=71017820 https://abcnews.go.com/US/small-town-police-chief-killed-off... https://www.insider.com/george-floyd-protests-violence-against-nypd-bronx-videos-2020-6 https://www.insider.com/george-floyd-protests-violence-again...
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      So is this how we've decided it's going to be? We have all protesters on one side, and if any protesters do anything bad, all get punished? (I also find some moderate irony in you claiming something doesn't make the news, then linking a news website.)
      - lenkite 6y ago
        I can link a dozen twitter videos showing all kinds of people getting badly beat up by protestors - none of which ever made the news as it doesn't fit the progressive narrative - but I don't think its worth it. And frankly, it's not hard to find these by yourself. Everyone now considers general violence and looting as legitimate actions in response to a crime committed by one police officer. Floyd's death was a tragedy and Derek (the police officer) responsible must pay heavily for it - a 2nd or 3rd degree murder conviction should be handed down to set an example. That case should be scrutinised heavily - and it will be. But I really don't understand why other people must suffer for one person's crime. The larger focus should be on the US police needing remedial training. Call up congressmen, call up senators. Rioting on the streets doesn't solve anything.
fzeroracer 6y ago
How much clearer can you get that the police are committing property destruction and using it to blame protesters? Like there is no justification for the police doing this outside of using to make their own narrative so that they can bust some heads at the next protest.
TLightful 6y ago
He just had a nervous twitch.
SpelingBeeChamp 6y ago
"numerous videos show police breaking windows themselves" I replied "I don't believe you." You responded by showing one video. I'm still waiting.

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jwilber 6y ago

Multiple people have replied with evidence in this thread. I don’t know your view on the matter, but somehow I doubt that seeing videos will do anything to change your view on the matter anyway. I say this because in a thread about police brutality, you cherry-pick an argument counter to what videos have already shown. I do hope the continuing videos showcasing police brutality, during protests OF police brutality, do something to convince people that it is a very real problem.