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We live in such cynical times that instead of simply applauding someone for doing the right thing they are either accused of virtue signalling or criticized for
by turndown 6y ago
We live in such cynical times that instead of simply applauding someone for doing the right thing they are either accused of virtue signalling or criticized for having associated with people before it was totally apparent what their moral stances were.
- brink 6y agoNot everyone (me included) believes the censorship he's calling for is the right thing.
- badrabbit 6y agoDo you have a better solution? And are you aware that no action means people will die and global economy as a whole might crumble?
- programmarchy 6y agoWithout censorship, people will die and the global economy might crumble? Seems like a very odd conclusion. Besides, the global economy in its current form is completely unsustainable. I understand the importance of racial justice, but are you saying somehow the global economy (I read that as multinational capitalism) is some vanguard of this principle?
- badrabbit 6y agoIf someone is actively coordinating to an end that will result in people dying, should you not censor? Why have a mechanism to censor to begin with? > I understand the importance of racial justice, but are you saying somehow the global economy (I read that as multinational capitalism) is some vanguard of this principle? This has nothing to do with racial justice. Continued unrest, rioting,etc... Will enable a steeper curve for the 2nd wave of Corona. No bailout or any government measure will help. The US economy will not collapse by itself, jusr like in 2008 it will affect the global economy. This is the 11th hour! Facebook is enabling all this. I understand if they had an unmoderated platform, but they moderate plenty! In the end the consequence is something you must acknowledge at least as a possibility when saying "censor things but not nazis and race war propaganda" This isn't about censorship,it's about policy. Do you also oppose fact checking? FB does!! > Besides, the global economy in its current form is completely unsustainable. So we should let it collapse? And how many wars and famine should be tolerated? I am all for change but not the "watch the world burn" kind of change. P.S.: Please lookup the meetings between Zuckerberg and republican leadership this year. This is strictly about politics,not censorship.
- thinkharderdev 6y agoGreat. People are allowed to disagree. He should be applauded though for actually putting his money where his mouth is.
- rorykoehler 6y agoWhat do you think is the right thing?
- commandlinefan 6y agoI really worry about where this is going. I think about Howard Stern moving over to Sirius satellite radio - as quaint as it seems in today's climate, he was at least as controversial (although in command of fewer armies) as Donald Trump is. The people who hated him then hated him as much, if not more, than the people who hate Donald Trump do now. I imagine some people quit Sirius in protest, but for the most part, people separated their own preferences from their jobs AND accepted that just because somebody isn't their own cup of tea doesn't mean that they shouldn't be anybody's cup of tea. This ideological purity test has me worried, though - I can easily imagine that the Trump-haters will view anybody who stayed at FB and opposed arbitrary censorship in an "if you're not with us, you're against us" way and blacklist ex-FB employees for not joining this guy. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, but that seems to be what a disturbing number of people are hoping for.
- dpau 6y agobad analogy. trump has far, far greater power than any talk show host and is advocating violence against americans.
- FabHK 6y agoLet's just be a bit careful with nomenclature here - when a private company doesn't print or publish or promote certain messages, that's not censorship. (Let alone when they carry it, but add a link.) I'm also against censorship. "Deplatforming" or something similar might be more appropriate here.
- landryraccoon 6y agoFacebook already censors. They already make editorial decisions regarding content. For example, content of a sexual nature is completely banned and gets you blocked on the platform. Racism and inciting violence get a pass, but post a woman breast feeding? You're gone in a flash. The free speech argument has no weight because Facebook already doesn't respect it.
- UncleOxidant 6y agoFolks without virtue accuse people of "virtue signalling" as if virtue were a bad thing. These folks would call MLK a social justice warrior engaged in "virtue signalling".
- krona 6y agoVirtue signalling costs nothing - that's the point of the phrase. MLK certainly wasn't virtue signalling.
- r00fus 6y agoSo does quitting count as no cost?
- hckr_news 6y agoEspecially in this current economic crisis. Hopefully he finds a better job and contributes to the betterment of society.
- thephyber 6y ago> Virtue signalling costs nothing While that is true, it's still worth pointing out that OP did quit his job, which is more than just virtue signaling. It turns out that some psychologists have publicly criticized the use of that term as it does belittle people who are actually acting virtuously, in addition to conspicuously posting about it.. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling#Criticism
- DFHippie 6y agoYes, the phrase "virtue signalling" is deeply cynical. Are there people who adopt a cause for aesthetics or social status rather than deeply felt convictions? Sure. But seldom is this slur applied to anyone because someone has done a behavioral study to determine the person insulted is feigning morality. And even if they are, if they are aping good behavior with desirable consequences, why insult them? The people calling others "social justice warriors" are doing even less.
- thinkharderdev 6y agoI've really come to be annoyed with the whole "virtue signaling" debate. What this guy did is virtue signaling but he signaled virtue by actually taking substantive action at some cost to himself. In this case the signal actually represents something real. The issue with virtue signaling that is objectionable is when it is done to avoid taking meaningful action.
- tryptophan 6y agoThe fact that he took action made it NOT `virtue signaling`. There is no debate here, only wrong definitions of terms being used.
- thinkharderdev 6y agoI guess it's semantics but I would argue that writing a LinkedIn post is what would constitute the virtue signaling. But there's nothing wrong with that. It's a signal, but a signal of actual substantive action. It's akin to putting out a press release after passing legislation. The press release is a signal but you still did the actual thing that matters.
- jandrese 6y agoWhat took place was people attempting to deflect and slander because the action he took made their position look bad. If you can't defend your message, attack the messenger.
- ponker 6y ago“Virtue signaling” is only a pejorative when it describes an action that has no cost and no benefit. Running into a burning building to save a person isn’t “virtue signaling” even if it does signal virtue.
- dd36 6y agoTrump was virtue signaling when he gassed protesters and held up a bible.
- 6y ago
- wenc 6y agoI don't think it's necessarily cynical, though it can be deployed by cynics. Part of the reason virtue signaling feels wrong is because it's cheap advocacy with no skin in the game, yet those who commit it feel like they've done something. Now, is this really so bad? I read a quote in Stratechery that resonated: -- "The first problem of being a society of talk, not action, is the inability to even consider hard work as a solution; The second is a blindness to the real trade-offs at play. The third, though, is the most sinister of all: if talk is all that matters, then policing talk becomes an end to itself." -- In this case, it wasn't virtue signalling. He paid the price to stand by his conviction. We may agree or disagree with his position, but we must surely honor his commitment to it.