4 ms·

> Funny how they later added 'judicial oversight' and things didn't change much. Secret courts are not proper oversight. The FBI should be handling all domestic

> Funny how they later added 'judicial oversight' and things didn't change much. Secret courts are not proper oversight. The FBI should be handling all domestic cases, period (NSLs are another matter). There should be no FBI. In fact, there didn't used to be. States were previously in charge of enforcing federal laws. Local law enforcement is the only group you can ever hope to hold accountable, and look how much they get away with.

jdsully 6y ago
The FBI's predecessor was formed specifically because of fraud involving local goverments in the Oregon Land Fraud Scandal. But even before that the justice department oversaw investigating federal crimes so this was never fully delegated to the states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_land_fraud_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_land_fraud_scandal
- snovv_crash 6y ago
  Then the FBI should be like 'Internal Affairs' for state-run investigations, and for coordinating cross-state investigations.
- linuxftw 6y ago
  Surely if a body of legislators thought it prudent to specifically establish the postal service, they would have established a federal law enforcement investigative body.
  - jdsully 6y ago
    They had it under the umbrella of the Justice Department. The BOI was created because the Justice Department didn’t have the will or manpower to perform its investigative duties.
- wahern 6y ago
  Also, there just weren't many Federal criminal laws until the late 19th century and especially early 20th century. What preceded and ushered in the so-called administrative state and expansive Commerce Clause powers was the emergence of Federal morality laws, such as the 1895 Federal Lottery Act[1] and the 1910 Mann Act.[2] Excepting brief periods during the Civil War and Reconstruction, Federal crimes only pertained to very specific areas under Federal jurisdiction, such as acts on federal property, violations of Federal tax laws (e.g. import/export), etc, none of which required an extensive, general purpose investigatory and enforcement apparatus. There were Federal agencies that performed investigations, of course, most famously the Federal Marshal Service and Secret Service. The power to investigate and enforce was always concomitant with the power to legislate, and naturally followed the enactment of such legislation. [1] See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champion_v._Ames https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champion_v._Ames [2] Supreme Court precedents applying these two acts is what opened the door to predominantly intra-state activity being captured by Federal inter-state powers.

jdsully 6y ago

The FBI's predecessor was formed specifically because of fraud involving local goverments in the Oregon Land Fraud Scandal. But even before that the justice department oversaw investigating federal crimes so this was never fully delegated to the states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_land_fraud_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_land_fraud_scandal

snovv_crash 6y ago
Then the FBI should be like 'Internal Affairs' for state-run investigations, and for coordinating cross-state investigations.
linuxftw 6y ago
Surely if a body of legislators thought it prudent to specifically establish the postal service, they would have established a federal law enforcement investigative body.
- jdsully 6y ago
  They had it under the umbrella of the Justice Department. The BOI was created because the Justice Department didn’t have the will or manpower to perform its investigative duties.
wahern 6y ago
Also, there just weren't many Federal criminal laws until the late 19th century and especially early 20th century. What preceded and ushered in the so-called administrative state and expansive Commerce Clause powers was the emergence of Federal morality laws, such as the 1895 Federal Lottery Act[1] and the 1910 Mann Act.[2] Excepting brief periods during the Civil War and Reconstruction, Federal crimes only pertained to very specific areas under Federal jurisdiction, such as acts on federal property, violations of Federal tax laws (e.g. import/export), etc, none of which required an extensive, general purpose investigatory and enforcement apparatus. There were Federal agencies that performed investigations, of course, most famously the Federal Marshal Service and Secret Service. The power to investigate and enforce was always concomitant with the power to legislate, and naturally followed the enactment of such legislation. [1] See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champion_v._Ames https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champion_v._Ames [2] Supreme Court precedents applying these two acts is what opened the door to predominantly intra-state activity being captured by Federal inter-state powers.