6 ms·

How do you engender an idea of a UK/Canada-type cop in a country where there are more guns than people? I assume cops here are trained to see all citizens as ar

How do you engender an idea of a UK/Canada-type cop in a country where there are more guns than people? I assume cops here are trained to see all citizens as armed threats, which systematically produces cops who are always on edge and ready to kill. The whole thing feels like a deeper problem than just training cops to be nicer.

linuxftw 6y ago
How do you think citizens feel? I consider anyone and everyone potentially armed and potentially a threat, yet I'm not blowing people away in the streets. Sounds like police need to change their tactics. Seems like society needs to change their expectations on what police are doing on a day to day basis. Are criminal penalties too harsh? If you're looking at 25-life for a conviction, aren't you going to resist being apprehended with as much force as possible? Unfortunately for us, democracy ensures idiots elect idiot politicians who employ idiot, evil police.
- tripzilch 6y ago
  Of course your penalties are too harsh. Not just the lengths either. Your prisons are simply awful places. Prison rape is so common it has its own trope. (and people joke about it, disgustingly) And there's so much more wrong than just the rape thing. Just google "amnesty us prison" if you need more examples.
jeffbee 6y ago
The incident that has sparked the current stretch of American decline involved police using force other than firearms against an unarmed man. It's clear that sending police to respond with violence to an incidence of passing counterfeit currency was perhaps not the appropriate response. Violence in American society has various structural root causes. It's not as simple as saying there are a lot of guns. Inequality, lack of opportunity, poor education, bleak built environment, and of course racism and the echoes of slavery are all aspects of the problem. Police violence can't solve any of them.
- TomSwirly 6y ago
  Hear, hear. It's particularly ridiculous since some large portion of the people who end up with a counterfeit bill have no idea that it's fake... Once I pulled out a bunch of cash in a bar and exactly one bill, a $5, glowed brightly under the black light in the bar. I'd already handed it to the bar owner and I said, "Oh, that one must be a fake, I'll take it back" and he said, "No, it's fine." I was surprised! (Under my fingers too, it was an obvious fake, but I didn't react in time.)
tsss 6y ago
Being a cop is actually a very safe job. I'd bet that your chance of being shot as a cashier at subway is higher than as a cop.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  Here's a list of occupations that are more dangerous than police officer. https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/the_deadliest_jobs_in_america_fatal_injuries_per_100000_workers_chartbuilder.png https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/the_deadliest_...
  - bananabreakfast 6y ago
    This is an excellent example of lying with statistics. Of course police deaths are low across all police everywhere. The aggregate death statistics are meaningless. Pull up a stat comparing deaths of cops only in downtown Chicago or Detroit or how about Minneapolis and then it will be more meaningful
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      Perhaps it is you who need to look up the statistics of those cities. Only two police officers have been killed in Minneapolis in the last 20 years, out of more than 600 homicides in that city.
    - TomSwirly 6y ago
      The reason you don't pull up those statistics is that they in fact completely contradict your claims. You might ask yourself why you feel the need to make things up?
- tharne 6y ago
  That really depends on where you're a cop. Most towns in the U.S. are very safe, so yes, in aggregate being a cop in the U.S. is very safe. But no one experiences the aggregate, and there are some incredibly dangerous places in the U.S. that you don't see anything similar to in other developed countries. Sure, being a cop in Scarsdale, NY is a pretty safe bet. Being a beat cop in Camden, NJ, not so much.
tharne 6y ago
Not enough people acknowledge this. The U.S. is a heavily armed country. It is very easy to (legally) buy military grade weapons in most states. Knowing that you could potentially get your head blown off anytime you pull someone over is going to lead to a very different psychology than you might see in a country like South Korea or Germany where very few people, if any, are armed. You can't just say, "Oh look how nice the police are in <Insert random western European country here>. Let's just do what they do". This a much more complex issue than the media or either political party is willing to acknowledge.
- Retric 6y ago
  The number of actual cops shot in the US is extremely low. Logging is five times as dangerous as police work and the most dangerous part of being a cop is the amount of driving they do. Even miscellaneous agricultural work is more dangerous and they make 24k/year.
  - tharne 6y ago
    I'd say that any number over 0 is not Ok. That would be like saying only a very small percentage of the population gets killed by cops. Again, anything over 0 == Not Ok. And just because you can cherry pick a dangerous job that happens to be more dangerous than being a cop doesn't make being a cop any less dangerous.
    - Retric 6y ago
      If you want to save lives, then armed cops are killing far more people than cops are being killed every year. So, removing guns from a cops normal uniform would very much save lives.
  - bananabreakfast 6y ago
    And yet cops in the bay area always pull over everyone with two to three police cars and don't leave their car until the backup arrives. This happens every single traffic stop. Clearly getting their head blown off is on their mind.
aianus 6y ago
> an idea of a UK/Canada-type cop It's a pet peeve of mine when people on social media mischaracterize Canada. We have shootouts in broad daylight in downtown Toronto on a fairly regular basis. All of our cops have guns and are trained to use them. We have 35 legal guns per 100 population and that doesn't account for the illegal handguns from the US which account for almost all of the gun crime. Canada and the UK are nothing alike in gun crime.
fenwick67 6y ago
You can be a cop on a bike and have a colorful shirt and still have a glock and a taser.

linuxftw 6y ago

How do you think citizens feel? I consider anyone and everyone potentially armed and potentially a threat, yet I'm not blowing people away in the streets. Sounds like police need to change their tactics. Seems like society needs to change their expectations on what police are doing on a day to day basis. Are criminal penalties too harsh? If you're looking at 25-life for a conviction, aren't you going to resist being apprehended with as much force as possible? Unfortunately for us, democracy ensures idiots elect idiot politicians who employ idiot, evil police.

tripzilch 6y ago
Of course your penalties are too harsh. Not just the lengths either. Your prisons are simply awful places. Prison rape is so common it has its own trope. (and people joke about it, disgustingly) And there's so much more wrong than just the rape thing. Just google "amnesty us prison" if you need more examples.

jeffbee 6y ago

The incident that has sparked the current stretch of American decline involved police using force other than firearms against an unarmed man. It's clear that sending police to respond with violence to an incidence of passing counterfeit currency was perhaps not the appropriate response. Violence in American society has various structural root causes. It's not as simple as saying there are a lot of guns. Inequality, lack of opportunity, poor education, bleak built environment, and of course racism and the echoes of slavery are all aspects of the problem. Police violence can't solve any of them.

TomSwirly 6y ago
Hear, hear. It's particularly ridiculous since some large portion of the people who end up with a counterfeit bill have no idea that it's fake... Once I pulled out a bunch of cash in a bar and exactly one bill, a $5, glowed brightly under the black light in the bar. I'd already handed it to the bar owner and I said, "Oh, that one must be a fake, I'll take it back" and he said, "No, it's fine." I was surprised! (Under my fingers too, it was an obvious fake, but I didn't react in time.)

tsss 6y ago

Being a cop is actually a very safe job. I'd bet that your chance of being shot as a cashier at subway is higher than as a cop.

jeffbee 6y ago
Here's a list of occupations that are more dangerous than police officer. https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/the_deadliest_jobs_in_america_fatal_injuries_per_100000_workers_chartbuilder.png https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/the_deadliest_...
- bananabreakfast 6y ago
  This is an excellent example of lying with statistics. Of course police deaths are low across all police everywhere. The aggregate death statistics are meaningless. Pull up a stat comparing deaths of cops only in downtown Chicago or Detroit or how about Minneapolis and then it will be more meaningful
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    Perhaps it is you who need to look up the statistics of those cities. Only two police officers have been killed in Minneapolis in the last 20 years, out of more than 600 homicides in that city.
  - TomSwirly 6y ago
    The reason you don't pull up those statistics is that they in fact completely contradict your claims. You might ask yourself why you feel the need to make things up?
tharne 6y ago
That really depends on where you're a cop. Most towns in the U.S. are very safe, so yes, in aggregate being a cop in the U.S. is very safe. But no one experiences the aggregate, and there are some incredibly dangerous places in the U.S. that you don't see anything similar to in other developed countries. Sure, being a cop in Scarsdale, NY is a pretty safe bet. Being a beat cop in Camden, NJ, not so much.

tharne 6y ago

Not enough people acknowledge this. The U.S. is a heavily armed country. It is very easy to (legally) buy military grade weapons in most states. Knowing that you could potentially get your head blown off anytime you pull someone over is going to lead to a very different psychology than you might see in a country like South Korea or Germany where very few people, if any, are armed. You can't just say, "Oh look how nice the police are in <Insert random western European country here>. Let's just do what they do". This a much more complex issue than the media or either political party is willing to acknowledge.

Retric 6y ago
The number of actual cops shot in the US is extremely low. Logging is five times as dangerous as police work and the most dangerous part of being a cop is the amount of driving they do. Even miscellaneous agricultural work is more dangerous and they make 24k/year.
- tharne 6y ago
  I'd say that any number over 0 is not Ok. That would be like saying only a very small percentage of the population gets killed by cops. Again, anything over 0 == Not Ok. And just because you can cherry pick a dangerous job that happens to be more dangerous than being a cop doesn't make being a cop any less dangerous.
  - Retric 6y ago
    If you want to save lives, then armed cops are killing far more people than cops are being killed every year. So, removing guns from a cops normal uniform would very much save lives.
- bananabreakfast 6y ago
  And yet cops in the bay area always pull over everyone with two to three police cars and don't leave their car until the backup arrives. This happens every single traffic stop. Clearly getting their head blown off is on their mind.

aianus 6y ago

> an idea of a UK/Canada-type cop It's a pet peeve of mine when people on social media mischaracterize Canada. We have shootouts in broad daylight in downtown Toronto on a fairly regular basis. All of our cops have guns and are trained to use them. We have 35 legal guns per 100 population and that doesn't account for the illegal handguns from the US which account for almost all of the gun crime. Canada and the UK are nothing alike in gun crime.

fenwick67 6y ago

You can be a cop on a bike and have a colorful shirt and still have a glock and a taser.