4 ms·

I just want to say that we have to do the things necessary to differentiate ourselves from places like China or Saudi Arabia. Nothing is implicit.

jdc 6y ago
While this is very disappointing news, these matters are not black and white. That is that say that even if police attack journalists in two countries, the one where it happens less frequently still outperforms the other.
- r00fus 6y ago
  Hypocrisy is a problem too. At some point, a mild improvement over totalitarianism becomes an implementation detail.
curiousgal 6y ago
I am honestly rejoicing at the sight of Americans discovering they are not really as free or as better than the rest of the world as they think they are. Maybe this will be the kindle that will help make things right for the entire population. I know the majority of HN readers are in the top 10% of the population and don't face the same struggles as others.
- exclusiv 6y ago
  > I am honestly rejoicing at the sight of Americans discovering they are not really as free or as better than the rest of the world as they think they are Americans are still freer than the rest of the world in general. None of this changes that. "As better" - still hasn't changed either if by better you mean better off. If you're born in the US, in general, you're in a position to be better off than most of the world. These two things also apply to most European countries. We aren't going to apologize for it. I understand if American patriotism and confidence puts off other countries. It's not for everyone. Different cultures have different values. It's ok. Sad we have to address police corruption and brutality, but it's part of the process. Many nations don't have the ability for civilians to enact change. It's core to our foundation. We've done it many times before.
  - runawaybottle 6y ago
    That’s exactly what I’m appealing to. Khashoggi got murdered brazenly, and nothing could be done about it. Hong Kong protestors get detained indefinitely, and nothing can be done about it. The American imperative is that we must do something about it. Our failure is that we have a threshold that needs to be met, but we do have a threshold. In most of the world there is no threshold. You can do anything, indefinitely, with no change. That’s why Putin is a multi decade President. That’s why China has a multi decade firewall. There’s no threshold. We are imperfect, but we acknowledge the boiling points, an actual metric we can work with. A number we can improve upon.
    - bigfudge 6y ago
      I think you underestimate how far down the road towards totalitarianism you have travelled in the last 20-30 years. There's nothing I can see that suggests you have a threshold which will spur change. Your voting systems are being more actively rigged than ever before to ensure the people most angry about police brutality will be most likely to be disenfranchised in November.
      - runawaybottle 6y ago
        Your are describing a nightmare scenario.
      - exclusiv 6y ago
        > Your voting systems are being more actively rigged than ever before This is simply not true. The only things that are rigged are the two party system that spit out bad candidates (seemingly more often than before), has mechanisms to suppress other parties, and no term limit career politicians that are bought out by special interests. But the voting system itself is not the problem.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

jdc 6y ago

While this is very disappointing news, these matters are not black and white. That is that say that even if police attack journalists in two countries, the one where it happens less frequently still outperforms the other.

r00fus 6y ago
Hypocrisy is a problem too. At some point, a mild improvement over totalitarianism becomes an implementation detail.

curiousgal 6y ago

I am honestly rejoicing at the sight of Americans discovering they are not really as free or as better than the rest of the world as they think they are. Maybe this will be the kindle that will help make things right for the entire population. I know the majority of HN readers are in the top 10% of the population and don't face the same struggles as others.

exclusiv 6y ago
> I am honestly rejoicing at the sight of Americans discovering they are not really as free or as better than the rest of the world as they think they are Americans are still freer than the rest of the world in general. None of this changes that. "As better" - still hasn't changed either if by better you mean better off. If you're born in the US, in general, you're in a position to be better off than most of the world. These two things also apply to most European countries. We aren't going to apologize for it. I understand if American patriotism and confidence puts off other countries. It's not for everyone. Different cultures have different values. It's ok. Sad we have to address police corruption and brutality, but it's part of the process. Many nations don't have the ability for civilians to enact change. It's core to our foundation. We've done it many times before.
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  That’s exactly what I’m appealing to. Khashoggi got murdered brazenly, and nothing could be done about it. Hong Kong protestors get detained indefinitely, and nothing can be done about it. The American imperative is that we must do something about it. Our failure is that we have a threshold that needs to be met, but we do have a threshold. In most of the world there is no threshold. You can do anything, indefinitely, with no change. That’s why Putin is a multi decade President. That’s why China has a multi decade firewall. There’s no threshold. We are imperfect, but we acknowledge the boiling points, an actual metric we can work with. A number we can improve upon.
  - bigfudge 6y ago
    I think you underestimate how far down the road towards totalitarianism you have travelled in the last 20-30 years. There's nothing I can see that suggests you have a threshold which will spur change. Your voting systems are being more actively rigged than ever before to ensure the people most angry about police brutality will be most likely to be disenfranchised in November.
    - runawaybottle 6y ago
      Your are describing a nightmare scenario.
    - exclusiv 6y ago
      > Your voting systems are being more actively rigged than ever before This is simply not true. The only things that are rigged are the two party system that spit out bad candidates (seemingly more often than before), has mechanisms to suppress other parties, and no term limit career politicians that are bought out by special interests. But the voting system itself is not the problem.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]