5 ms·

This sounds like an excellent case for equipment limitations. At the very least making departments pay 'retail' for gear instead of getting effectively donated

This sounds like an excellent case for equipment limitations. At the very least making departments pay 'retail' for gear instead of getting effectively donated surplus.

core-questions 6y ago
Why should taxpayers who fund the police have to artificially pay more markup, making someone else rich, just so the police have less equipment?
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Why should the police get a discount? They should have to buy their MRAPs through the auction systems the same way that someone running a logging company has to buy surplus LMTVs. I'm sympathetic to the cause of saving money but if the military won't auction something to a random US citizen I don't see why they should be auctioning that thing to a random US civilian police force. They can sell that stuff to other nations if they can't sell it domestically. I don't particularly care what the standard is for disposing of unwanted military hardware is so long as it's not a double one. A civilian police force should get no special treatment above any other civilian entity.
  - core-questions 6y ago
    > I'm sympathetic to the cause of saving money but if the military won't auction something to a random US citizen I don't see why they should be auctioning that thing to a random US civilian police force. I don't see why it's not clear there's a difference here, in terms of community interest, but whatever > A civilian police force should have no special rights above any other civilian entity. What a weird way of looking at the world. I've genuinely never heard this take. Police have power over you, if you break the law; that's the point, no?
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      Police power is not intrinsic. It is granted by the people through their elected government. In my state, every local authority has the power to designate entities to exercise their various powers. By tradition these are police or sheriff departments but there's nothing preventing the local government from vesting police powers in the 4-H club or Wal-mart.
      - jointpdf 6y ago
        > there's nothing preventing the local government from vesting police powers in the 4-H club Would love to see this happen. Being policed by literal pigs would be better than...well, you know.
      - mulmen 6y ago
        “License, registration and club card please.”
    - qball 6y ago
      >What a weird way of looking at the world. I've genuinely never heard this take. That's interesting, and betrays the fact that modern policing has somewhat drifted away from its historic tradition. (https://www.techuk.org/insights/opinions/item/15744-behind-policing-by-consent-the-peelian-principles https://www.techuk.org/insights/opinions/item/15744-behind-p...)
    - mulmen 6y ago
      That’s absolutely not the point of the police. Any power granted to the police is granted by the people they are changed with protecting. The police are not our overlords, they are our servants.
      - core-questions 6y ago
        This is an understanding of power without any understanding of force or sovereignty. It should be more clear than ever what power truly is.
  - agensaequivocum 6y ago
    > I don't particularly care what the standard is for disposing of unwanted military hardware is so long as it's not a double one. A civilian police force should get no special treatment above any other civilian entity. Agreed, the NFA needs to go and every citizen should be able to purchase military surplus.
- zentiggr 6y ago
  (Disclosure: proud US submariner '94 - '00) We're talking about them paying for military surplus like vehicles, machineguns and other items that 95% of departments don't need. If the DoD weren't spreading surplus Army gear out like candy to babies who don't know how to use it, there would be a lot fewer opportunities for the not so stable elements of police departments to escalate otherwise normal situations just so they can play with big boy toys/get that "underfire" adrenaline hit again/get that power trip high that they craved from high school/soothe that sociopathic itch to dominate others. We can put our voices together and force the DoD to stop this bullshit surplus program and acjnowledge that they built and bought too much and get egg on their faces as they destroy old gear and vehicles.

This sounds like an excellent case for equipment limitations. At the very least making departments pay 'retail' for gear instead of getting effectively donated surplus.

core-questions 6y ago

Why should taxpayers who fund the police have to artificially pay more markup, making someone else rich, just so the police have less equipment?

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Why should the police get a discount? They should have to buy their MRAPs through the auction systems the same way that someone running a logging company has to buy surplus LMTVs. I'm sympathetic to the cause of saving money but if the military won't auction something to a random US citizen I don't see why they should be auctioning that thing to a random US civilian police force. They can sell that stuff to other nations if they can't sell it domestically. I don't particularly care what the standard is for disposing of unwanted military hardware is so long as it's not a double one. A civilian police force should get no special treatment above any other civilian entity.
- core-questions 6y ago
  > I'm sympathetic to the cause of saving money but if the military won't auction something to a random US citizen I don't see why they should be auctioning that thing to a random US civilian police force. I don't see why it's not clear there's a difference here, in terms of community interest, but whatever > A civilian police force should have no special rights above any other civilian entity. What a weird way of looking at the world. I've genuinely never heard this take. Police have power over you, if you break the law; that's the point, no?
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    Police power is not intrinsic. It is granted by the people through their elected government. In my state, every local authority has the power to designate entities to exercise their various powers. By tradition these are police or sheriff departments but there's nothing preventing the local government from vesting police powers in the 4-H club or Wal-mart.
    - jointpdf 6y ago
      > there's nothing preventing the local government from vesting police powers in the 4-H club Would love to see this happen. Being policed by literal pigs would be better than...well, you know.
    - mulmen 6y ago
      “License, registration and club card please.”
  - qball 6y ago
    >What a weird way of looking at the world. I've genuinely never heard this take. That's interesting, and betrays the fact that modern policing has somewhat drifted away from its historic tradition. (https://www.techuk.org/insights/opinions/item/15744-behind-policing-by-consent-the-peelian-principles https://www.techuk.org/insights/opinions/item/15744-behind-p...)
  - mulmen 6y ago
    That’s absolutely not the point of the police. Any power granted to the police is granted by the people they are changed with protecting. The police are not our overlords, they are our servants.
    - core-questions 6y ago
      This is an understanding of power without any understanding of force or sovereignty. It should be more clear than ever what power truly is.
- agensaequivocum 6y ago
  > I don't particularly care what the standard is for disposing of unwanted military hardware is so long as it's not a double one. A civilian police force should get no special treatment above any other civilian entity. Agreed, the NFA needs to go and every citizen should be able to purchase military surplus.
zentiggr 6y ago
(Disclosure: proud US submariner '94 - '00) We're talking about them paying for military surplus like vehicles, machineguns and other items that 95% of departments don't need. If the DoD weren't spreading surplus Army gear out like candy to babies who don't know how to use it, there would be a lot fewer opportunities for the not so stable elements of police departments to escalate otherwise normal situations just so they can play with big boy toys/get that "underfire" adrenaline hit again/get that power trip high that they craved from high school/soothe that sociopathic itch to dominate others. We can put our voices together and force the DoD to stop this bullshit surplus program and acjnowledge that they built and bought too much and get egg on their faces as they destroy old gear and vehicles.