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> let people decide for themselves whether they want to be gay > By allowing gay marriage, you are forcing your views on everyone This is a straw man. People

> let people decide for themselves whether they want to be gay > By allowing gay marriage, you are forcing your views on everyone This is a straw man. People don't choose to be gay, and conservatives are depriving people of their rights for something they can't choose. Allowing individuals the right of self determination is nowhere near allowing a sitting president to incite violence against American citizens.

whatshisface 6y ago
I think you're misusing the term "straw man." A straw man is an argument that nobody ever uses, brought forward purely to discredit. I am pretty sure I have heard that argument before, so it's not a straw man. In any case, it doesn't even matter whether that example has happened in a debate before. It's simply meant to illustrate the error in failing to distinguish between liberality and restrictivism.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  A straw man is misrepresenting an argument so that it's easier to counter. I don't think this is a straw man, I just think it's a poor analogy. The difference between same–sex marriage and what Trump is doing is that same–sex marriage affects no one except for those getting married. No one is being forced to have a same–sex marriage or go to a same–sex wedding. "Forcing your views on us" means "we don't want to live in a society where this is permitted, even if I am never personally affected by it." Trump, on the other hand, has posted propaganda about voter suppression and incited violence. This absolutely affects other people. It's not neutral to unaffiliated parties at all — how many protesters will be hurt because Trump has openly called for violence against them?
  - whatshisface 6y ago
    Going back to the original point, if Zuckerberg was in charge of deciding which policy positions were good and which ones were bad, it would be his personal opinions that mattered. So your or my opinion about whether Trump tweets or gay marriage are good or bad, are not very relevant.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      Yes, I agree with you about that. The point at which we diverge is that I’m saying it’s not hypothetical — Zuckerberg is making political decisions which reflect his personal values.

whatshisface 6y ago

I think you're misusing the term "straw man." A straw man is an argument that nobody ever uses, brought forward purely to discredit. I am pretty sure I have heard that argument before, so it's not a straw man. In any case, it doesn't even matter whether that example has happened in a debate before. It's simply meant to illustrate the error in failing to distinguish between liberality and restrictivism.

jakelazaroff 6y ago
A straw man is misrepresenting an argument so that it's easier to counter. I don't think this is a straw man, I just think it's a poor analogy. The difference between same–sex marriage and what Trump is doing is that same–sex marriage affects no one except for those getting married. No one is being forced to have a same–sex marriage or go to a same–sex wedding. "Forcing your views on us" means "we don't want to live in a society where this is permitted, even if I am never personally affected by it." Trump, on the other hand, has posted propaganda about voter suppression and incited violence. This absolutely affects other people. It's not neutral to unaffiliated parties at all — how many protesters will be hurt because Trump has openly called for violence against them?
- whatshisface 6y ago
  Going back to the original point, if Zuckerberg was in charge of deciding which policy positions were good and which ones were bad, it would be his personal opinions that mattered. So your or my opinion about whether Trump tweets or gay marriage are good or bad, are not very relevant.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    Yes, I agree with you about that. The point at which we diverge is that I’m saying it’s not hypothetical — Zuckerberg is making political decisions which reflect his personal values.