6 ms·

That would be an immeasurable loss to humanity, the IA should be protected by the government. I've contributed some very old cartoons I managed to find on VHS r

That would be an immeasurable loss to humanity, the IA should be protected by the government. I've contributed some very old cartoons I managed to find on VHS rips and was very glad that the IA exists to safekeep them, many 30-somethings in my country have fond memories of these cartoons. Terabytes upon terabytes of historical data would vanish if the IA were to go bankrupt.

VonGuard 6y ago
IA is not a national treasure, it is a world treasure. They can do anything they want in my eyes, because absolutely 0 organizations are doing the work they do publicly. If IA is bankrupted by this, the publishers, lawyers, authors, everyone involved should feel like complete assholes. IA did something nice for the people of the world locked down by Corona Virus. But fuck them, right? Gotta get that money, as there is literally nothing else worth anything in the human experience. Doing the right thing for humanity is completely bad for businesses, all of whom will be sending, what, 10 cents back to the authors per book. Gotta save those publishers! Fuck everyone who's saying IA shouldn't do this. You're all seeing the world through your wallets.
- arkades 6y ago
  > IA did something nice for the people of the world locked down by Corona Virus. But fuck them, right? Gotta get that money, as there is literally nothing else worth anything in the human experience. Doing the right thing for humanity is completely bad for businesses, all of whom will be sending, what, 10 cents back to the authors per book. Gotta save those publishers! Just a crazy thought: they weren't just depriving publishers of revenue, they were directly depriving authors. People already not widely renowned as rolling in the dollars, and also hurt during a time of decreased discretionary spending. But they don't count as people, right?
  - kick 6y ago
    This is blatantly ridiculous. IA allows authors to opt out, despite how incredibly unethical it is for authors to opt out, and copying isn't stealing in the first place.
    - xhkkffbf 6y ago
      It doesn't matter. If the authors can't eat, they can't produce. You're still taking food from the author's mouth when you read an unauthorized copy. This hairsplitting baloney about whether the word "theft" applies is a distraction.
      - kick 6y ago
        Blaming the children in impoverished towns in places like Louisiana for "stealing" information over blaming the politicians who refuse after all this time to make authoring works sustainable or the system that enforces the same is ridiculous. I'm totally sure that twelve year old "stealing" bytes from LibGen over the wire in their rural town without a library worth its salt is just ripping that sandwich away from the author. Piracy doesn't harm sales, and actually improves them in certain cases: https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537 https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-... Tell me, though, how someone who can't afford books would be able to buy them in the first place? How are they taking food from the author's mouth? Complete and utter hogwash.
        xhkkffbf 6y ago
        Go ahead. Focus on the extreme outliers. 98% of America can afford to buy a book. I would guess that 90% of America spend more at Starbucks than they do at a bookstore. Yeah, that's their choice, but it proves they can afford it. Heck. Most of the panhandlers make enough in change in an hour to afford a Kindle Single. Please. Don't pretend to care for the small fraction of America that is in bad financial shape. You're just using them to justify your theft.
      - VonGuard 6y ago
        What part of "opt-out" Do you not understand? Contact them, ask them to remove it, they will, on an author by author basis, rather than as a blanket publisher request that everything be removed.
        6y ago
  - mimi89999 6y ago
    How many people who read a certain book on IA would actually be able to buy it during the crisis? I think that that number is really low, so the loss is really low as well, but sometimes authors prefer not to sell or give away even when there is no perspective or benefit. Some time ago, I needed an old book that wasn't popular, but nobody wanted to sell a new copy of it at even a remotely decent price...
    - mimi89999 6y ago
      It's like a car dealer said "you fool came to buy a car in that hard time. I see that you really need it, so I will charge 10x the price" "But look! You have an entire parking lot of cars that nobody wants to buy. Maybe you could give me a discount?" "You are right. I will charge 40x the price!"
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> the IA should be protected by the government Bankruptcy doesn't mean dissolution. If the IA goes bankrupt over this National Emergency Library boondoggle, the servers will still be around. A new organization could lift them out, clean them up and re-launch the service with a more focussed mandate and better internal processes.
- generationP 6y ago
  The question is what will happen with the archived data (wayback and user-submitted material). Ideally someone will scrape them and a new similar entity will spring up. Is there anything in law that would prevent that from happening?
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > what will happen with the archived data (wayback and user-submitted material) Presumably, they legally hold those data. As such, it could be purchased by a new organization out of bankruptcy (assuming IA loses and goes into liquidation versus restructuring).
    - generationP 6y ago
      Yeah, but could they give it away?
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Prior to a court judgement, yes. After? Uncharted territory.
- canada_dry 6y ago
  > A new organization could lift them out ... please watch this 30 second Google ad to retrieve your archived content...
yummypaint 6y ago
If random for-profit companies can be deemed too important to fail, then the IA absolutely deserves that designation.
yummypaint 6y ago
If for-profit companies can be deemed too important to fail, then the IA absolutely deserves that designation.
sambull 6y ago
Reinforces sentiment I heard lately from the AG. History is written by the winners.
jariel 6y ago
Corona-specific issues aside, I'll bet that publishers don't care that much about the current situation. I do believe however that they're after a precedent being set, and though I'm definitely not a lawyer, I know that at least for brands and trademarks, you have to defend your property or lose it. The same might apply to their literary IP. If IA does it, then 'anyone else can do it', in which case the entire value of publishers business is vaporized. My instinct is that the publishers want the IA to 'stop doing it' and the situation will likely end up something along those lines.
clarry 6y ago
> the IA should be protected by the government The IA should be protected from governments.

VonGuard 6y ago

IA is not a national treasure, it is a world treasure. They can do anything they want in my eyes, because absolutely 0 organizations are doing the work they do publicly. If IA is bankrupted by this, the publishers, lawyers, authors, everyone involved should feel like complete assholes. IA did something nice for the people of the world locked down by Corona Virus. But fuck them, right? Gotta get that money, as there is literally nothing else worth anything in the human experience. Doing the right thing for humanity is completely bad for businesses, all of whom will be sending, what, 10 cents back to the authors per book. Gotta save those publishers! Fuck everyone who's saying IA shouldn't do this. You're all seeing the world through your wallets.

arkades 6y ago
> IA did something nice for the people of the world locked down by Corona Virus. But fuck them, right? Gotta get that money, as there is literally nothing else worth anything in the human experience. Doing the right thing for humanity is completely bad for businesses, all of whom will be sending, what, 10 cents back to the authors per book. Gotta save those publishers! Just a crazy thought: they weren't just depriving publishers of revenue, they were directly depriving authors. People already not widely renowned as rolling in the dollars, and also hurt during a time of decreased discretionary spending. But they don't count as people, right?
- kick 6y ago
  This is blatantly ridiculous. IA allows authors to opt out, despite how incredibly unethical it is for authors to opt out, and copying isn't stealing in the first place.
  - xhkkffbf 6y ago
    It doesn't matter. If the authors can't eat, they can't produce. You're still taking food from the author's mouth when you read an unauthorized copy. This hairsplitting baloney about whether the word "theft" applies is a distraction.
    - kick 6y ago
      Blaming the children in impoverished towns in places like Louisiana for "stealing" information over blaming the politicians who refuse after all this time to make authoring works sustainable or the system that enforces the same is ridiculous. I'm totally sure that twelve year old "stealing" bytes from LibGen over the wire in their rural town without a library worth its salt is just ripping that sandwich away from the author. Piracy doesn't harm sales, and actually improves them in certain cases: https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537 https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-... Tell me, though, how someone who can't afford books would be able to buy them in the first place? How are they taking food from the author's mouth? Complete and utter hogwash.
      - xhkkffbf 6y ago
        Go ahead. Focus on the extreme outliers. 98% of America can afford to buy a book. I would guess that 90% of America spend more at Starbucks than they do at a bookstore. Yeah, that's their choice, but it proves they can afford it. Heck. Most of the panhandlers make enough in change in an hour to afford a Kindle Single. Please. Don't pretend to care for the small fraction of America that is in bad financial shape. You're just using them to justify your theft.
    - VonGuard 6y ago
      What part of "opt-out" Do you not understand? Contact them, ask them to remove it, they will, on an author by author basis, rather than as a blanket publisher request that everything be removed.
      - 6y ago
- mimi89999 6y ago
  How many people who read a certain book on IA would actually be able to buy it during the crisis? I think that that number is really low, so the loss is really low as well, but sometimes authors prefer not to sell or give away even when there is no perspective or benefit. Some time ago, I needed an old book that wasn't popular, but nobody wanted to sell a new copy of it at even a remotely decent price...
  - mimi89999 6y ago
    It's like a car dealer said "you fool came to buy a car in that hard time. I see that you really need it, so I will charge 10x the price" "But look! You have an entire parking lot of cars that nobody wants to buy. Maybe you could give me a discount?" "You are right. I will charge 40x the price!"

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> the IA should be protected by the government Bankruptcy doesn't mean dissolution. If the IA goes bankrupt over this National Emergency Library boondoggle, the servers will still be around. A new organization could lift them out, clean them up and re-launch the service with a more focussed mandate and better internal processes.

generationP 6y ago
The question is what will happen with the archived data (wayback and user-submitted material). Ideally someone will scrape them and a new similar entity will spring up. Is there anything in law that would prevent that from happening?
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > what will happen with the archived data (wayback and user-submitted material) Presumably, they legally hold those data. As such, it could be purchased by a new organization out of bankruptcy (assuming IA loses and goes into liquidation versus restructuring).
  - generationP 6y ago
    Yeah, but could they give it away?
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Prior to a court judgement, yes. After? Uncharted territory.
canada_dry 6y ago
> A new organization could lift them out ... please watch this 30 second Google ad to retrieve your archived content...

yummypaint 6y ago

If random for-profit companies can be deemed too important to fail, then the IA absolutely deserves that designation.

yummypaint 6y ago

If for-profit companies can be deemed too important to fail, then the IA absolutely deserves that designation.

sambull 6y ago

Reinforces sentiment I heard lately from the AG. History is written by the winners.

jariel 6y ago

Corona-specific issues aside, I'll bet that publishers don't care that much about the current situation. I do believe however that they're after a precedent being set, and though I'm definitely not a lawyer, I know that at least for brands and trademarks, you have to defend your property or lose it. The same might apply to their literary IP. If IA does it, then 'anyone else can do it', in which case the entire value of publishers business is vaporized. My instinct is that the publishers want the IA to 'stop doing it' and the situation will likely end up something along those lines.

clarry 6y ago

> the IA should be protected by the government The IA should be protected from governments.