8 ms·

I did switch from 2012 Macbook Air to 2019 Macbook Pro a few weeks ago and I can't agree more with the article. One of the reasons I'm using Mac instead of Linu

by rednum 6y ago

I did switch from 2012 Macbook Air to 2019 Macbook Pro a few weeks ago and I can't agree more with the article. One of the reasons I'm using Mac instead of Linux is that I make music. And the new Macbook sucks for this purpose: the same recording settings I used on my old laptop are not usable on the new one. 90% of time things work fine, but sometimes I get glitches and pops in the middle of the recording. Why? Who knows. I did everything I could like closing other apps, disabling ton of things running in background; I freeze tracks in my DAW but things still break sometimes. I really hope some update from Ableton/Apple fixes things soon; if not I'm considering downgrade from Catalina. But wait, there's more! Sometimes I got glitches even when I'm not recording but playing tracks. I have this problem on literally the same Ableton projects that used to "just work" on the old machine (same number of tracks/plugins). The workaround is to restart the laptop. Seriously, it feels like Windows XP all over. I can't imagine playing live shows with such unreliable setup - fortunately I just make tracks for my own, but if I were to go out for some kind of jam session or open mic I'd consider switching to Windows. EDIT: One more thing that sucks about new MacOS: dropping 32 bit compatibility. RIP all 32 bit VSTs. Fortunately I don't use that many plugins and it turned out everything I really care about has 64 bit version. But if it didn't, then I'd hold on to the old OS as long as possible.

vmception 6y ago
Macs and OSX were only interesting because they "just worked", and now they don't and are simply not that interesting.
karatestomp 6y ago
My wife's been having repeated AV glitches on her '19 Macbook Air. Video audio cuts out after a few minutes very frequently, across browsers and even on local players and for audio on locally-downloaded podcasts. Video calls do similar things, which has, you know, been a problem. Best I can figure is there are some bad software + hardware glitches with some of the Siri-related stuff and maybe the fingerprint chip. Disabled Siri but it still happens. Apple store's seen it and reset it and been like, meh, it's fine, but it's very much not. Never seen this kind of flakey-out-of-the-box bullshit from Apple. I really need a new machine but I'm holding out for a better run than what they have now. And maybe some undoing of their recent price hikes (they used to drop prices, substantially, with some frequency, in the distant past of a few years ago and earlier). Plus all the damn dongles. My '14 has lots of ports and zero USB-C and those ports are great, and I still don't have anything that's USB-C aside from adapters for work laptops, so... why do I want only USB-C again, and no other ports at all? Maybe in another 5-7 years it'll make sense. Give them time to switch all their iDevices to USB-C and for me to replace all those (they last many years, that's why we buy them). Then at least my laptop and iPads and iPhones and such can share peripherals, which is moving toward some kind of benefit to offset the loss of ports.
- rednum 6y ago
  Yeah, all my audio equipment (keyboards, controllers, interface) is USB A and I don't see producers switching en masse (and even if they do, do I really want to throw away my favorite keytar?). The only exception is Roli block but Roli is kinda meh - fun to play every once in a while but not something I'd like to use every day to lay bass track or piano chords. I've disabled a ton of various background stuff like Siri but this setup is still flakey. If I were trying to make money on my music I'd be really pissed now.
  - karatestomp 6y ago
    I think all my musical equipment has a USB-B port on them, work over USB 2.0, and I've got like a dozen USB-A/USB-B cables around. Those plug into every other computing device in my house except new Macbooks (and iPads, but, Lightning to USB-A adapter, so, still USB-A, and notably I can't share that adapter with a Macbook because Apple's approach to this has been a bizarre mix of foot-dragging and waffling on the iDevice side while running way ahead of the pack on the other). My enthusiasm level for buying new cables or adapters only for fairly new Macbooks when any other new computing device I buy would still have USB-A ports, and then have them maybe not work anyway because USB-C compatibility and cable/adapter quality is a shit-show, is exactly zero. And I'm not made of money and I have other hobbies that require cash so I buy used musical equipment so I can get low-end pro gear a generation or two old for at or under new prices for amateur/crappy gear. There's little chance I'll buy any USB-C native musical equipment of any kind before 2030 or so. Who's cycling out all their gear—musical or otherwise—so fast that dropping USB-A and HDMI entirely in 2016, on a "pro" laptop, made any damn sense?
    - armandhammer 6y ago
      You do know that all you have to do is buy a USB-B to USB-C cable and you can connect your existing equipment to your Macbook, right? I mean it sucks that the new Macbooks have so few USB-C ports, but there's nothing preventing you from plugging in all of the older USB-A/B/micro/etc equipment directly into it as long as you buy the correct $5 cable with a USB-C connector on the other end. No dongles necessary.
lostlogin 6y ago
Could this all be dongle related? So much bad seems to get introduced by dongles and I have spent so much time debugging crazy issues that have been due to USB C dongles. Mine have almost all been monitor related, but at this stage there is almost nothing that I would be surprised to see fixed by switching/removing a dongle.
- rednum 6y ago
  By dongles you mean just hubs or also adapters? Unfortunately, I also want to record vocals or external instruments for which I need a MIDI interface (which uses USB A); and I don't think you can buy USB C midi keyboard yet (actually Roli Block has USB C but I don't like it much and 95% of time I'd rather use normal keyboard). Is there particular dongle you can recommend? (By the way, my Focursite interface does not work with "quality" Aukey hub that I bought, I'm using some noname dongle for that).
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    I think I am lumping them all together, but my bad experiences are all with adaptors (Eg USB C to HDMI and similar). At least half the problem for me is the USB C cable and the variety of things that can be plugged into the port that look the same but are not. I have been scarred by a target-disk-mode recovery which required a new, non-Apple cable to work. It’s crazy that we have ended up here. Audio is not something I know well, but I have yet to have problems with Belkin adaptors. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macworld.com/article/2911813/got-a-new-macbook-usb-target-disk-mode-works-with-the-right-cable-which-apple-doesnt-sell.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macworld.com/article/291181...
  - armandhammer 6y ago
    You don't need a dongle to use regular old USB-A devices with a USB-C computer. All you need to do is replace the cable which is usually like $5. So if your MIDI keyboard or audio interface has a USB-B connector on the hardware side (like the Scarlett do), just buy a USB-B to USB-C cable. I don't know why the myth of needing a USB-C-to-A dongle has persisted for so long.
beckler 6y ago
I play at a local church sometimes, and they use ableton for their click tracks and loops. They've had SO many issues with it. It has randomly died mid-performance, the tempo click has completely gone off the rails mid-performance, and the loops got transposed once into a completely different key mid-performance. I use a 2012 MBP stuck on High Sierra. It has occasional issues when I record, but nowhere near the amount of issues that we experience at the church. I want to upgrade badly, but I really don't want to deal with those kind of issues.
olvn 6y ago
As a former long-time Ableton user, just want to recommend Bitwig Studio[1] as a viable (improved?) alternative that runs natively on Linux. I've used it for live performances and label-released music for over four years now and other than the typical setup issues related to Jack (one time thing resolved in an hour or so) I couldn't be happier. [1] https://www.bitwig.com/en/home.html https://www.bitwig.com/en/home.html
- platetone 6y ago
  I'm really tempted here. I've got a paid Ableton license, and I absolutely love Ableton, but it's the main thing keeping me from dumping Windows 10 for Linux.
  - zeus_hammer 6y ago
    Transitioning between Ableton and Bitwig is seamless from a UI standpoint. They have essentially the same controls. The only thing that isn't great moving from Windows to Linux for production is your VST ecosystem becomes much more limited. Running plugins under WINE is alright, but if they're heavy you'll run into latency issues. There's a sizable collection of plugins that are native under Linux though[0]. I've used many of these with great success. [0]: http://linux-sound.org/linux-vst-plugins.html http://linux-sound.org/linux-vst-plugins.html
    - cageface 6y ago
      You can get pretty far with the built in instruments and effects in Bitwig, especially with the new modular grid. I haven't felt much need for third party stuff.
- zeus_hammer 6y ago
  +1 for Bitwig. >>other than the typical setup issues related to Jack (one time thing resolved in an hour or so) I was never able to get Jack up and running on my MBP. I tried both Jack and Jack2, compiling from source, using their prepackaged binaries, using the cli vs the GUI, etc, .. nothing doing. Do you have any resources you can share detailing how you resolved the issue or how you configure it? Feel free to PM, emails in profile.
drcongo 6y ago
I make music on a 2018 iPad Pro and now I can never upgrade that because they've removed the headphone jack on the new ones. What's "Pro" about an iPad without a headphone jack?
- karatestomp 6y ago
  Shit, seriously? We use a first-gen big pro on our (electric) piano at home and being able to run midi into the iPad while also using headphone-out on the iPad is key for our use. I guess at least the new ones use USB-C so there are more adapter options so maybe there's a USB + headphone jack adapter out there, but 1) it's entirely stupid that we'd need one, and 2) if it's not a first-party Apple adapter we'd be rolling the dice that it works at all, let alone that it'll still work in six months—which is a big part of the problem with this dumbassed dongle-verse they've created, that most of the dongles on the market are awful so you can't always count on finding a version of the thing you need that actually works with your hardware. Or I guess they expect me to buy Bluetooth heaphones, but... why? We have like three sets of corded ones two of which are quite good, and about a dozen pairs of ear buds. We don't need new headphones. We need a headphone jack.
  - rednum 6y ago
    > Or I guess they expect me to buy Bluetooth heaphones ...which adds another source of frustration to the setup - bluetooth latency. At some point I've tried setup like this: midi keyboard -> USB dongle -> iPad -> bluetooth speaker; the latency sucked. Not something you observe when you listen to music on Youtube, so not something that 99% users will notice, which means it will never get fixed.
  - nickflood 6y ago
    Finding a usb-c adapter which has a good DAC may be a process in itself. I got several $20-$40 adapters from China, and they all have a very tinny, absolutely atrocious sound on their headphone jack.
- wwweston 6y ago
  Remember: * Apple knows best * this is a totally legitimate product decision because no one likes wires on their headphones since like 2016 * what you really want is bluetooth, especially airpods -- have you bought your airpods yet? Ecosystem FTW!!1! -- even though they introduce latency that's unacceptable in some situations * Apple knows best, and look, you don't get a career as a bold product thinker by caring about some kind of insignificant minority of niche creators who care about latency in music making * Besides, why are you such a whiner? Just buy a $35 dongle that takes up your only port like everyone else (at least, until we finally succeed in our quest to remove that port too and achieve seamless invulnerable portless design, a rock, and island, and an island never cries) * Apple knows best * Look, why are you such a hater?
Sangeppato 6y ago
That's weird, reliable low latency audio is one of the few things where I still find the Mac to be pretty solid. I've got a 2015 15" and I've used several times a 2018 13", on both Mojave and Catalina and I have to say that it outperforms my 2015 (it can easily manage a 32 buffer with some plugins loaded, while my 15" starts to struggle under 64). This was using Reaper with an Apple USB-A to USB-C adapter and a UMC204HD interface
- rednum 6y ago
  I use Ableton with Focusrite Scarlett 2nd gen. I'm currently using 256 buffer. I've tried using 128 but it screwed up some vocal takes I did the other day (there are 5-10 seconds of cracks in the middle of each 4 minute long complete song take). Also I froze the other tracks (eight of them, so not that many) before starting recording. No FX on master track. Maybe I should've bought 2015 MBP then. Or maybe I should downgrade to Mojave? Or buy the Apple adapter? Or a different interface? No idea; both Focusrite and Ableton say they are compatible with Catalina.
  - PascLeRasc 6y ago
    I'm on a 64-bit buffer on Catalina/2015 Macbook Pro/3rd gen Scarlett/Ableton, just as a reference point. Sorry to hear that.
  - Sangeppato 6y ago
    As I've said, the 13" 2018 I use from time to time can easily manage a 32 buffer, even on Catalina, so your device should be just as good.. My suggestion is to try with a different adapter and maybe with a different DAW such as Reaper, just to double-check (although I don't really think the DAW is the issue here). It may also be related to the plugins you're using, maybe they're just heavier than mine..
throwsoundpop 6y ago
I've been getting playback glitches in Logic* with a 2020 MPB 16" running (as shipped) with Catalina. It seems to only happen when using the built-in speakers. I never hear glitches using headphones (which is what I have as the default audio interface for Logic). So I just use headphones all the time, but it's an incredibly negative experience to pop open one of your projects on your new laptop and hear this rhythmic popping. If it had also glitched in the headphones I might literally have thrown the laptop out the window. * This isn't my post, but it's exactly the glitch I get in the built-in speakers: https://imgur.com/a/YPCmyiV https://imgur.com/a/YPCmyiV EDIT: More information https://www.gearslutz.com/board/apple-logic-pro/1289789-officially-having-major-audio-problem-logic-16-quot-mbp-core-audio.html https://www.gearslutz.com/board/apple-logic-pro/1289789-offi... and specifically https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14412122&postcount=23 https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14412122&post...
nwsm 6y ago
You probably want to use an external DAC or audio interface. That solved a lot of glitch/pop noises for me.
- rednum 6y ago
  I record via interface (Focusrite Scarlett 2nd gen) and also have pop issues with it; when I used it with my old laptop it worked much, much better (on the same settings).
ploxiln 6y ago
I've seen reports of pops/crackles in digital audio mixing/synthesis applications being fixed by disabling hyperthreading. This makes some sense if hyperthreading can sometimes cause extra latency for some threads to get real CPU work done, which is hard for the OS to strictly control. There have been a few different ways to disable hyperthreading on macbooks over the years, but recently Apple offers a good way (to mitigate recent Intel CPU vulnerability corner-cases for the paranoid): https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT210108 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT210108
- derefr 6y ago
  > This makes some sense if hyperthreading can sometimes cause extra latency for some threads to get real CPU work done, which is hard for the OS to strictly control. Threads requiring hard real-time responsiveness can (and do) request to be marked as such by the scheduler. And the OS is certainly aware of what hyperthreads-presenting-as-cores belong to which physical cores, and uses this information in scheduling. So I'd find it implausible that any modern OS (esp. one that already had good DAW support) doesn't already have logic to try to keep the other hyperthreads of a core on which a hard-realtime thread is running, as uncontended as possible, by either not scheduling, or very conservatively scheduling (i.e. "early" pre-empting) anything on that hyperthread. I have a feeling it's something much more arcane. Maybe a hitch generated by the core switching "licenses" due to an AVX512 instruction.
- happymellon 6y ago
  I can get pops and crackles in Spotify. It isn't hyperthreading, which has never been an issue before, on any platform. The audio subsystem has been fucked up in some way.
rayiner 6y ago
Catalina is such a tire fire. (Although, the Touch Bar helpfully suggested the emoji when I typed that.) It crashed multiple times a day hooked up to my external monitor. I was on the verge of returning it until 10.15.5 came out and seems to have fixed it (though it hasn't for everyone suffering from GPU-related kernel panics).
pipeoperator 6y ago
Experiencing audio glitches all the time on my Mac. Never had any issues at all before installing Catalina. After a recent Catalina update all the streaming video / audio stutters stopped only to be replaced with random dots appearing over my display - almost like my graphics card was dying. That’s now disappeared (after the most recent update) but the stuttering has restarted. Running console.app As these issues occurred showed a number of errors that came up time and again. Bluetooth seemingly interrupting the audio, graphics drivers failing, disk access halting the system. Catalina is a poor product - probably the version of MacOS where I’ve experienced the most issues.
PascLeRasc 6y ago
Can you start playing audio, go to System Preferences -> Date and Time -> Unlock the panel -> repeatedly uncheck and re-check "Set date and time automatically" and see if that causes audio glitches? There's a known problem with that series of MBPs, I believe with the T2 chip. I'm still on the 2015 Macbook so I can't test it, but another audio pro I know says some recent Catalina update fixed it, and before that they did their live shows with it unchecked and didn't have a problem.
- rednum 6y ago
  I've tried that, recording is still broken sadly.
pmarreck 6y ago
Is it possible that a memory upgrade might fix the issue, assuming each new OS consumes more base memory and that the stutters are the side effect of VM pageouts or pageins to or from disk?
tim333 6y ago
Thanks for the update - typed from my 2013 air with 32 bit ok os(10.13). Think I'll hold on. One fun benefit of 2013 tech is you can by a bunch and give them to your friends for the same price as a 2020 model. I've now bought 4 and given away 3. It's good that they are reliable - many other laptops don't really last 7 years.
artsyca 6y ago
Realistically how long can one expect to keep using a retina Macbook pro? I've had my mid 2015 since.. Mid 2015 and now I'm getting paranoid it'll up and explode on me out of the blue I have a new OWC SSD upgrade so that should be alright.. Trying to keep it running cool without heavy software but the battery is at like 500 charge cycles and 70% capacity man it feels so scary getting old
EricE 6y ago
It's looking more and more there is some wonkiness with the T2 chip as it's now responsible for USB, among many other things. To quote Scotty - the more complicated they make things the easier they are to foul up.

by rednum 6y ago

vmception 6y ago

Macs and OSX were only interesting because they "just worked", and now they don't and are simply not that interesting.

karatestomp 6y ago

My wife's been having repeated AV glitches on her '19 Macbook Air. Video audio cuts out after a few minutes very frequently, across browsers and even on local players and for audio on locally-downloaded podcasts. Video calls do similar things, which has, you know, been a problem. Best I can figure is there are some bad software + hardware glitches with some of the Siri-related stuff and maybe the fingerprint chip. Disabled Siri but it still happens. Apple store's seen it and reset it and been like, meh, it's fine, but it's very much not. Never seen this kind of flakey-out-of-the-box bullshit from Apple. I really need a new machine but I'm holding out for a better run than what they have now. And maybe some undoing of their recent price hikes (they used to drop prices, substantially, with some frequency, in the distant past of a few years ago and earlier). Plus all the damn dongles. My '14 has lots of ports and zero USB-C and those ports are great, and I still don't have anything that's USB-C aside from adapters for work laptops, so... why do I want only USB-C again, and no other ports at all? Maybe in another 5-7 years it'll make sense. Give them time to switch all their iDevices to USB-C and for me to replace all those (they last many years, that's why we buy them). Then at least my laptop and iPads and iPhones and such can share peripherals, which is moving toward some kind of benefit to offset the loss of ports.

rednum 6y ago
Yeah, all my audio equipment (keyboards, controllers, interface) is USB A and I don't see producers switching en masse (and even if they do, do I really want to throw away my favorite keytar?). The only exception is Roli block but Roli is kinda meh - fun to play every once in a while but not something I'd like to use every day to lay bass track or piano chords. I've disabled a ton of various background stuff like Siri but this setup is still flakey. If I were trying to make money on my music I'd be really pissed now.
- karatestomp 6y ago
  I think all my musical equipment has a USB-B port on them, work over USB 2.0, and I've got like a dozen USB-A/USB-B cables around. Those plug into every other computing device in my house except new Macbooks (and iPads, but, Lightning to USB-A adapter, so, still USB-A, and notably I can't share that adapter with a Macbook because Apple's approach to this has been a bizarre mix of foot-dragging and waffling on the iDevice side while running way ahead of the pack on the other). My enthusiasm level for buying new cables or adapters only for fairly new Macbooks when any other new computing device I buy would still have USB-A ports, and then have them maybe not work anyway because USB-C compatibility and cable/adapter quality is a shit-show, is exactly zero. And I'm not made of money and I have other hobbies that require cash so I buy used musical equipment so I can get low-end pro gear a generation or two old for at or under new prices for amateur/crappy gear. There's little chance I'll buy any USB-C native musical equipment of any kind before 2030 or so. Who's cycling out all their gear—musical or otherwise—so fast that dropping USB-A and HDMI entirely in 2016, on a "pro" laptop, made any damn sense?
  - armandhammer 6y ago
    You do know that all you have to do is buy a USB-B to USB-C cable and you can connect your existing equipment to your Macbook, right? I mean it sucks that the new Macbooks have so few USB-C ports, but there's nothing preventing you from plugging in all of the older USB-A/B/micro/etc equipment directly into it as long as you buy the correct $5 cable with a USB-C connector on the other end. No dongles necessary.

lostlogin 6y ago

Could this all be dongle related? So much bad seems to get introduced by dongles and I have spent so much time debugging crazy issues that have been due to USB C dongles. Mine have almost all been monitor related, but at this stage there is almost nothing that I would be surprised to see fixed by switching/removing a dongle.

rednum 6y ago
By dongles you mean just hubs or also adapters? Unfortunately, I also want to record vocals or external instruments for which I need a MIDI interface (which uses USB A); and I don't think you can buy USB C midi keyboard yet (actually Roli Block has USB C but I don't like it much and 95% of time I'd rather use normal keyboard). Is there particular dongle you can recommend? (By the way, my Focursite interface does not work with "quality" Aukey hub that I bought, I'm using some noname dongle for that).
- lostlogin 6y ago
  I think I am lumping them all together, but my bad experiences are all with adaptors (Eg USB C to HDMI and similar). At least half the problem for me is the USB C cable and the variety of things that can be plugged into the port that look the same but are not. I have been scarred by a target-disk-mode recovery which required a new, non-Apple cable to work. It’s crazy that we have ended up here. Audio is not something I know well, but I have yet to have problems with Belkin adaptors. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macworld.com/article/2911813/got-a-new-macbook-usb-target-disk-mode-works-with-the-right-cable-which-apple-doesnt-sell.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macworld.com/article/291181...
- armandhammer 6y ago
  You don't need a dongle to use regular old USB-A devices with a USB-C computer. All you need to do is replace the cable which is usually like $5. So if your MIDI keyboard or audio interface has a USB-B connector on the hardware side (like the Scarlett do), just buy a USB-B to USB-C cable. I don't know why the myth of needing a USB-C-to-A dongle has persisted for so long.

beckler 6y ago

I play at a local church sometimes, and they use ableton for their click tracks and loops. They've had SO many issues with it. It has randomly died mid-performance, the tempo click has completely gone off the rails mid-performance, and the loops got transposed once into a completely different key mid-performance. I use a 2012 MBP stuck on High Sierra. It has occasional issues when I record, but nowhere near the amount of issues that we experience at the church. I want to upgrade badly, but I really don't want to deal with those kind of issues.

olvn 6y ago

As a former long-time Ableton user, just want to recommend Bitwig Studio[1] as a viable (improved?) alternative that runs natively on Linux. I've used it for live performances and label-released music for over four years now and other than the typical setup issues related to Jack (one time thing resolved in an hour or so) I couldn't be happier. [1] https://www.bitwig.com/en/home.html https://www.bitwig.com/en/home.html

platetone 6y ago
I'm really tempted here. I've got a paid Ableton license, and I absolutely love Ableton, but it's the main thing keeping me from dumping Windows 10 for Linux.
- zeus_hammer 6y ago
  Transitioning between Ableton and Bitwig is seamless from a UI standpoint. They have essentially the same controls. The only thing that isn't great moving from Windows to Linux for production is your VST ecosystem becomes much more limited. Running plugins under WINE is alright, but if they're heavy you'll run into latency issues. There's a sizable collection of plugins that are native under Linux though[0]. I've used many of these with great success. [0]: http://linux-sound.org/linux-vst-plugins.html http://linux-sound.org/linux-vst-plugins.html
  - cageface 6y ago
    You can get pretty far with the built in instruments and effects in Bitwig, especially with the new modular grid. I haven't felt much need for third party stuff.
zeus_hammer 6y ago
+1 for Bitwig. >>other than the typical setup issues related to Jack (one time thing resolved in an hour or so) I was never able to get Jack up and running on my MBP. I tried both Jack and Jack2, compiling from source, using their prepackaged binaries, using the cli vs the GUI, etc, .. nothing doing. Do you have any resources you can share detailing how you resolved the issue or how you configure it? Feel free to PM, emails in profile.

drcongo 6y ago

I make music on a 2018 iPad Pro and now I can never upgrade that because they've removed the headphone jack on the new ones. What's "Pro" about an iPad without a headphone jack?

karatestomp 6y ago
Shit, seriously? We use a first-gen big pro on our (electric) piano at home and being able to run midi into the iPad while also using headphone-out on the iPad is key for our use. I guess at least the new ones use USB-C so there are more adapter options so maybe there's a USB + headphone jack adapter out there, but 1) it's entirely stupid that we'd need one, and 2) if it's not a first-party Apple adapter we'd be rolling the dice that it works at all, let alone that it'll still work in six months—which is a big part of the problem with this dumbassed dongle-verse they've created, that most of the dongles on the market are awful so you can't always count on finding a version of the thing you need that actually works with your hardware. Or I guess they expect me to buy Bluetooth heaphones, but... why? We have like three sets of corded ones two of which are quite good, and about a dozen pairs of ear buds. We don't need new headphones. We need a headphone jack.
- rednum 6y ago
  > Or I guess they expect me to buy Bluetooth heaphones ...which adds another source of frustration to the setup - bluetooth latency. At some point I've tried setup like this: midi keyboard -> USB dongle -> iPad -> bluetooth speaker; the latency sucked. Not something you observe when you listen to music on Youtube, so not something that 99% users will notice, which means it will never get fixed.
- nickflood 6y ago
  Finding a usb-c adapter which has a good DAC may be a process in itself. I got several $20-$40 adapters from China, and they all have a very tinny, absolutely atrocious sound on their headphone jack.
wwweston 6y ago
Remember: * Apple knows best * this is a totally legitimate product decision because no one likes wires on their headphones since like 2016 * what you really want is bluetooth, especially airpods -- have you bought your airpods yet? Ecosystem FTW!!1! -- even though they introduce latency that's unacceptable in some situations * Apple knows best, and look, you don't get a career as a bold product thinker by caring about some kind of insignificant minority of niche creators who care about latency in music making * Besides, why are you such a whiner? Just buy a $35 dongle that takes up your only port like everyone else (at least, until we finally succeed in our quest to remove that port too and achieve seamless invulnerable portless design, a rock, and island, and an island never cries) * Apple knows best * Look, why are you such a hater?

Sangeppato 6y ago

That's weird, reliable low latency audio is one of the few things where I still find the Mac to be pretty solid. I've got a 2015 15" and I've used several times a 2018 13", on both Mojave and Catalina and I have to say that it outperforms my 2015 (it can easily manage a 32 buffer with some plugins loaded, while my 15" starts to struggle under 64). This was using Reaper with an Apple USB-A to USB-C adapter and a UMC204HD interface

rednum 6y ago
I use Ableton with Focusrite Scarlett 2nd gen. I'm currently using 256 buffer. I've tried using 128 but it screwed up some vocal takes I did the other day (there are 5-10 seconds of cracks in the middle of each 4 minute long complete song take). Also I froze the other tracks (eight of them, so not that many) before starting recording. No FX on master track. Maybe I should've bought 2015 MBP then. Or maybe I should downgrade to Mojave? Or buy the Apple adapter? Or a different interface? No idea; both Focusrite and Ableton say they are compatible with Catalina.
- PascLeRasc 6y ago
  I'm on a 64-bit buffer on Catalina/2015 Macbook Pro/3rd gen Scarlett/Ableton, just as a reference point. Sorry to hear that.
- Sangeppato 6y ago
  As I've said, the 13" 2018 I use from time to time can easily manage a 32 buffer, even on Catalina, so your device should be just as good.. My suggestion is to try with a different adapter and maybe with a different DAW such as Reaper, just to double-check (although I don't really think the DAW is the issue here). It may also be related to the plugins you're using, maybe they're just heavier than mine..

throwsoundpop 6y ago

I've been getting playback glitches in Logic* with a 2020 MPB 16" running (as shipped) with Catalina. It seems to only happen when using the built-in speakers. I never hear glitches using headphones (which is what I have as the default audio interface for Logic). So I just use headphones all the time, but it's an incredibly negative experience to pop open one of your projects on your new laptop and hear this rhythmic popping. If it had also glitched in the headphones I might literally have thrown the laptop out the window. * This isn't my post, but it's exactly the glitch I get in the built-in speakers: https://imgur.com/a/YPCmyiV https://imgur.com/a/YPCmyiV EDIT: More information https://www.gearslutz.com/board/apple-logic-pro/1289789-officially-having-major-audio-problem-logic-16-quot-mbp-core-audio.html https://www.gearslutz.com/board/apple-logic-pro/1289789-offi... and specifically https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14412122&postcount=23 https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14412122&post...

nwsm 6y ago

You probably want to use an external DAC or audio interface. That solved a lot of glitch/pop noises for me.

rednum 6y ago
I record via interface (Focusrite Scarlett 2nd gen) and also have pop issues with it; when I used it with my old laptop it worked much, much better (on the same settings).

ploxiln 6y ago

I've seen reports of pops/crackles in digital audio mixing/synthesis applications being fixed by disabling hyperthreading. This makes some sense if hyperthreading can sometimes cause extra latency for some threads to get real CPU work done, which is hard for the OS to strictly control. There have been a few different ways to disable hyperthreading on macbooks over the years, but recently Apple offers a good way (to mitigate recent Intel CPU vulnerability corner-cases for the paranoid): https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT210108 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT210108

derefr 6y ago
> This makes some sense if hyperthreading can sometimes cause extra latency for some threads to get real CPU work done, which is hard for the OS to strictly control. Threads requiring hard real-time responsiveness can (and do) request to be marked as such by the scheduler. And the OS is certainly aware of what hyperthreads-presenting-as-cores belong to which physical cores, and uses this information in scheduling. So I'd find it implausible that any modern OS (esp. one that already had good DAW support) doesn't already have logic to try to keep the other hyperthreads of a core on which a hard-realtime thread is running, as uncontended as possible, by either not scheduling, or very conservatively scheduling (i.e. "early" pre-empting) anything on that hyperthread. I have a feeling it's something much more arcane. Maybe a hitch generated by the core switching "licenses" due to an AVX512 instruction.
happymellon 6y ago
I can get pops and crackles in Spotify. It isn't hyperthreading, which has never been an issue before, on any platform. The audio subsystem has been fucked up in some way.

rayiner 6y ago

Catalina is such a tire fire. (Although, the Touch Bar helpfully suggested the emoji when I typed that.) It crashed multiple times a day hooked up to my external monitor. I was on the verge of returning it until 10.15.5 came out and seems to have fixed it (though it hasn't for everyone suffering from GPU-related kernel panics).

pipeoperator 6y ago

Experiencing audio glitches all the time on my Mac. Never had any issues at all before installing Catalina. After a recent Catalina update all the streaming video / audio stutters stopped only to be replaced with random dots appearing over my display - almost like my graphics card was dying. That’s now disappeared (after the most recent update) but the stuttering has restarted. Running console.app As these issues occurred showed a number of errors that came up time and again. Bluetooth seemingly interrupting the audio, graphics drivers failing, disk access halting the system. Catalina is a poor product - probably the version of MacOS where I’ve experienced the most issues.

PascLeRasc 6y ago

Can you start playing audio, go to System Preferences -> Date and Time -> Unlock the panel -> repeatedly uncheck and re-check "Set date and time automatically" and see if that causes audio glitches? There's a known problem with that series of MBPs, I believe with the T2 chip. I'm still on the 2015 Macbook so I can't test it, but another audio pro I know says some recent Catalina update fixed it, and before that they did their live shows with it unchecked and didn't have a problem.

rednum 6y ago
I've tried that, recording is still broken sadly.

pmarreck 6y ago

Is it possible that a memory upgrade might fix the issue, assuming each new OS consumes more base memory and that the stutters are the side effect of VM pageouts or pageins to or from disk?

tim333 6y ago

Thanks for the update - typed from my 2013 air with 32 bit ok os(10.13). Think I'll hold on. One fun benefit of 2013 tech is you can by a bunch and give them to your friends for the same price as a 2020 model. I've now bought 4 and given away 3. It's good that they are reliable - many other laptops don't really last 7 years.

artsyca 6y ago

Realistically how long can one expect to keep using a retina Macbook pro? I've had my mid 2015 since.. Mid 2015 and now I'm getting paranoid it'll up and explode on me out of the blue I have a new OWC SSD upgrade so that should be alright.. Trying to keep it running cool without heavy software but the battery is at like 500 charge cycles and 70% capacity man it feels so scary getting old

EricE 6y ago

It's looking more and more there is some wonkiness with the T2 chip as it's now responsible for USB, among many other things. To quote Scotty - the more complicated they make things the easier they are to foul up.