4 ms·

A follow-up article should be, "What did older Beethoven sound like to the older Beethoven?" (provides recording of silence)

tim333 6y ago
He could probably hear it in his head to an extent.
- rectang 6y ago
  Naturally he could, but the feedback loop was broken, so he wasn't able to refine his compositions as effectively. A lot of late period Beethoven has aspects which are "off" somehow. But the fact that Beethoven produced something which was even coherent under those conditions is just mind boggling.
  - senderista 6y ago
    The arrangement may sound off occasionally (great conductors like Mahler or Mendelssohn couldn’t always get their orchestration right the first time either), but the music itself certainly didn’t suffer. Yes, late Beethoven is often just weird, but not in any amateurish way.
    - rectang 6y ago
      I don't hear it so much in arrangement, but in things like harmonic rhythm or harmonies. So that means we disagree, because harmonic rhythm is an aspect of the "music" by anybody's definition. I wrote about a couple examples here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22104132 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22104132 I don't think "amateurish" is a good word. It's more of an extremely accomplished work but needing an additional round of editing. Stuff which would have been obvious to Beethoven had he actually been able to hear it, but since he never got the chance to, it never got corrected.
      - senderista 6y ago
        I don't believe that Beethoven couldn't imagine harmonies perfectly in his head. Perhaps not orchestral texture and balance though, but probably no one could while completely deaf. Are you talking about the famous "boogie-woogie" variation in Op. 111? I don't see what could possibly be "glitchy" about that, rather than utterly visionary!
- adonovan 6y ago
  Very recent scholarship suggests Beethoven's deafness was less profound than is widely assumed: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/01/beethoven-not-completely-deaf-says-musicologist https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/01/beethoven-not-...

tim333 6y ago

He could probably hear it in his head to an extent.

rectang 6y ago
Naturally he could, but the feedback loop was broken, so he wasn't able to refine his compositions as effectively. A lot of late period Beethoven has aspects which are "off" somehow. But the fact that Beethoven produced something which was even coherent under those conditions is just mind boggling.
- senderista 6y ago
  The arrangement may sound off occasionally (great conductors like Mahler or Mendelssohn couldn’t always get their orchestration right the first time either), but the music itself certainly didn’t suffer. Yes, late Beethoven is often just weird, but not in any amateurish way.
  - rectang 6y ago
    I don't hear it so much in arrangement, but in things like harmonic rhythm or harmonies. So that means we disagree, because harmonic rhythm is an aspect of the "music" by anybody's definition. I wrote about a couple examples here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22104132 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22104132 I don't think "amateurish" is a good word. It's more of an extremely accomplished work but needing an additional round of editing. Stuff which would have been obvious to Beethoven had he actually been able to hear it, but since he never got the chance to, it never got corrected.
    - senderista 6y ago
      I don't believe that Beethoven couldn't imagine harmonies perfectly in his head. Perhaps not orchestral texture and balance though, but probably no one could while completely deaf. Are you talking about the famous "boogie-woogie" variation in Op. 111? I don't see what could possibly be "glitchy" about that, rather than utterly visionary!
adonovan 6y ago
Very recent scholarship suggests Beethoven's deafness was less profound than is widely assumed: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/01/beethoven-not-completely-deaf-says-musicologist https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/01/beethoven-not-...