11 ms·

Wsl 2 is incredible. Got a 1000 dollars dell desktop and it is insanely faster than my Mac. Windows has improved a lot, and Linux based development on windows i

Wsl 2 is incredible. Got a 1000 dollars dell desktop and it is insanely faster than my Mac. Windows has improved a lot, and Linux based development on windows is a lot easier now. 5 years ago I would have quit a job if they asked me to use windows. Macos is still marginally better but not worth the cost IMHO.

exdsq 6y ago
+1 for WSL 2. I'm a huge advocate of it at work where people are very pro-Linux. I have noticed a few issues with it that don't make sense seeing as it's meant to have a full Linux Kernel (such as sockets not appearing) but that could be Ubuntu-20.04 being the one at fault to be fair :)
- the_duke 6y ago
  In contrast to WSL1, WSL2 is a full-blown Linux virtual machine. It "just" has some tooling to make integration nicer. So some awkwardness is to be expected.
- paulcarroty 6y ago
  -1 for WSL. If I need Linux, it will be obviously native. Also WSL doesn't solve: * forced Windows updates when you don't need them * shitload of failed updates: bricked OS, deleted user data etc * stupid non-uninstallable game icons in start menu, a lot of vendor-forever-locked garbage like cortana & one drive * bad fs performance in general
  - realusername 6y ago
    That's harsh but I agree with those points, Windows is still a consumer oriented operating system at its core, which has a lot of undesirable features for a developer.
    - C1sc0cat 6y ago
      Like ? You probably should be using a windows pro install and not one with crapware from the manufacturer
      - magicalhippo 6y ago
        Until a feature update ago, I was quite disappointed with Win10 as a dev platform. I'm running Win 10 Pro. Especially Windows Update was just plain intolerable. However some time the past months I realized I don't think about Windows much... which means it's no longer constantly annoying me. There are still stupid things, like Apps display language not being tied to the OS display language setting (wtf?!), but I can live with that. On a day to day basis my machine stays on, is performant, and does what I ask it to.
      - neutronicus 6y ago
        My employer provided workstation ( which presumably uses Pro) is still always spamming me about Teams and OneDrive.
        411111111111111 6y ago
        You can disable that with local admin. The domain admin could too, but they're mostly just there to get their paycheck, not to improve your experience so they won't bother.
        Nextgrid 6y ago
        The argument is that you shouldn't have to disable it to begin with.
      - rbanffy 6y ago
        Referring https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23389595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23389595 for a list of undesirable features: * forced Windows updates when you don't need them * shitload of failed updates: bricked OS, deleted user data etc * stupid non-uninstallable game icons in start menu, a lot of vendor-forever-locked garbage like cortana & one drive * bad fs performance in general I'll add a couple of my own (and be a more restrained in my opinions) * Windows + WSL is a hybrid environment. Files are on different places depending on from where you are looking. It feels like developing within Docker containers, without the power and flexibility. * Low observability: very few programs log things and, while there is excellent system wide plumbing for that, very few programs are using it. * PowerShell makes some questionable choices. For instance, "curl" is a built-in command that has different switches from its Unix homonym. It'd cost absolutely nothing to have a different name for that.
    - mmcnl 6y ago
      Is macOS so different? You have to disable notifications manually every day to not have your developer workflow interrupted. The login screen is a 3D cube (weird, random and ugly). Icons in the dock wiggle. You delete applications by dragging them to trash bin. Maximizing Safari is impossible. The list goes on and on.
  - disposedtrolley 6y ago
    > stupid non-uninstallable games icons in start menu You can remove them now. At least I was able to in the Windows 10 v.2004 update. Why Candy Crush is included with Windows 10 Pro however is beyond me.
    - qayxc 6y ago
      Why was Solitaire bundled even with the NT (i.e. enterprise/business) versions of Windows? No one ever questioned that, but everybody takes issue with Candy Crush? Weird...
      - michaelt 6y ago
        People see it as less analogous to Solitaire, and more analogous to the McAfee crapware you get bundled with cheap PCs.
        qayxc 6y ago
        And why is that? I never even once played Solitaire and uninstalled Candy Crush without even looking at it. What's the deal with this sudden hatred towards nonsense that was installed 35 years ago as well and had a way bigger impact on system resources (in terms of disk space and screen real-estate) than Candy Crush? Is it because it's a mobile port - too colourful and too in-your-face about it being a mindless pastime than a boomer-style virtual card game that even came with a "boss-key"?
        jorams 6y ago
        Solitaire and the other games were included just as features. You had to seek them out, and they were there for you to enjoy if you wanted. Candy Crush is given prime real estate in the start menu, and is a highly commercial game with in-app-purchases. It's a straight-up advert.
      - tosers4 6y ago
        Solitaire is not asking you for money
  - fuzzy2 6y ago
    WSL 2 does indeed solve the FS performance problem because you’d use the Linux VM’s block device, not the host fs (NTFS).
  - C1sc0cat 6y ago
    You can set windows not to update in core hours and even then you can decline the update. I have never had a bricked OS from an windows update You know you can unpin stuff from the start menu to get rid of clutter.
    - ubercow13 6y ago
      If you leave some task processing overnight, that's probably not your 'core hours', unless you set it that way and not in the day. But then what if all your work is lost when an update is installed in your lunch break? It's ridiculous that there is (or was? Not sure if it's changed) no way to never automatically install an update. Remember when Windows 10 was released and there were reports that Windows 8 would literally automatically update to Windows 10 without user intervention [1]. My mother's laptop did that and it bricked her install. The OS taking over control of updates is totally user-hostile. 'Core hours' is just giving a little bit of that control back, it's not a solution. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/15/windows-10-automatically-installs-without-permission-complain-users https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/15/windows-1...
      - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        I renerally assume that all work can suddenly dissapear unless saved to disk, duew to powercut or app crashing or whatever else. Autosave, etc. If you do have some long task like rendering that takes hours, thats of-course trickier.
        ubercow13 6y ago
        Yes of course - saving work regularly is good. However apart from long-running tasks you can still lose things like the current state of your desktop and applications. Consider if you were working on something involved and had many applications running all with some complex state set up. You might not lose any data but you have lost the 'working memory' of what you were doing.
  - ximeng 6y ago
    There is a problem on Linux with some software not being available or not being as well tested. Despite all the problems with Windows this means that sometimes having it is helpful.
  - exdsq 6y ago
    WSL2 is a Linux VM, what's your use-case for native over that? - You can disable updates - I'm on the insider version and this has never happened to me, let alone for 'normal' users. - You can uninstall all of that stuff - It's not that bad, I work on a decentralised database and we have similar performance across Windows and Linux. Windows was a bit tougher to do but it got there :)
    - thomaslord 6y ago
      I'm honestly baffled that you've never experienced an update that bricked your system - how long have you been using Windows? Two years ago Microsoft released an update that killed Windows on my brand new (at the time) desktop (i7-8700k, gtx 1080). I thought "no big deal, I'll boot up my old desktop and deal with it later" but when I turned on that machine (i5-2500k, rx480), it applied the same update and also killed the Windows install. At that point I gave up on using a desktop for the day and booted up Windows on my laptop (i7-7700HQ, gtx 1050m), only to have that also install the update and kill the install. I'd had Windows updates break before that, but always on one machine so it was easy to write off as some driver quirk or something weird I had installed.
      - GordonS 6y ago
        Not the parent, but I've been running Windows for decades on multiple machines (4 different ones at this time) - never once had an update brick a system. You seem to be assuming everyone else is frequently having a problem because you have had it. In reality, these events are rare, which the overwhelming majority of people not having any issue.
      - exdsq 6y ago
        I’ve only worked in tech for six years but I started as a sysadmin and managed a network of ~50 windows computers for two years, and then worked in a windows dev shop for three years, and I’ve never once seen an update brick Windows. I’ve bricked windows by being dumb but I’ve also bricked Linux by being dumb. Sometimes I feel like it’s cool to hate Windows, like it’s cool to hate Java.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    Sometimes i read thing like this and I feel they are from a different universe. I am the first port of call for IT issues of the whole family, including grandma. Like 10 people, and the last time we had issue caused by windows update was like 5 years ago when a laptop was trying to update to W10 from W8. That required a bit of manual intervention. Game icons certainly arent there for me any more. Whats the issue with Onedrive? I mean, its preinstalled, but you dont have to run it.
    - Sangeppato 6y ago
      Lucky you! In the last 6 months Windows tried to install an upgrade, failing endlessly, on both my mother's and sister's laptops. It just tried to upgrade, failed during the reboot, reverted back and booted on the old version, just to start the whole process again after a few hours. And all the Microsoft Windows Update Assistant tools or whatever didn't work at all, so I just clean installed in frustration. TBF though, my 2013 desktop never gave me a single issue on Windows..
      - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        Paradoxically, driver issues and update issues never show up on any desktops I had, they only show up on laptops with carefully selected and entirely manufacturer-controlled supply chain and parts.
- bishalb 6y ago
  It's really amazing. I don't know much about Linux, but whenever I need to use some Linux only tool(or works best on linux tool), I just use wsl. Tried using a couple of linux desktops but the user experience is just terrible compared to windows for day to day work and there aren't many softwares available.
  - ubercow13 6y ago
    What parts were terrible?
- severino 6y ago
  > +1 for WSL 2. I'm a huge advocate of it at work where people are very pro-Linux So your co-workers already use Linux (for free, I guess), but now you're trying to convince them to use a restricted Linux version that also costs money. How's that?
  - exdsq 6y ago
    We develop cross-platform projects in an environment where Windows is a second-class citizen but accounts for the vast majority of our user base. WSL2 is a really nice stepping stone towards having both operating systems treated equally.
lkramer 6y ago
Out of curiosity, why not simply run Linux at that point?
- TomMarius 6y ago
  A huge number of small annoyances during "normal" usage of a computer. Issues with sleep, displays, hi DPI, even my wallpaper and fonts don't always display correctly...
  - fsflover 6y ago
    Just don't buy "Windows certified" laptops... Upd: why downvotes? My Librem 15 and Lenovo T400 both work flawlessly for many years. They are designed for GNU/Linux.
    - TomMarius 6y ago
      I had Lenovo T530 and it worked OK, but with half the battery life. Then I had XPS 15 and I got it working after a lot of fiddling, but with a third of battery life and with hidpi issues on wake up. The battery thing is really a killer for me.
    - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
      > "Just don't buy "Windows certified" laptops..." All x86 servers, PCs, and laptops are designed to run Windows by adhering to a specification issued by Microsoft and certified by running a suite of compatibility tests provided by Microsoft (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/hlk/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/hlk/). The free OSes are piggybacking on that; there is no independent, neutral standard for the architecture of x86 PCs. > "My Librem 15 and Lenovo T400 both work flawlessly for many years. They are designed for GNU/Linux." Linux isn't even listed as a supported OS for the T400 on Lenovo's support site: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd005598 https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd005598
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
humbfool2 6y ago
I moved to Windows after 5 years of Mac this month. Because I knew I will be working from home, decided to build a good workstation (Thank you Ryzen ) and I Couldn't agree more WSL is very helpful for people who like windows UI and functionalities of Linux. There are few quirks but it works great.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  My Linux setup is usually like this, but inside out. When I need Windows functions (which is not often), I fire up a VM (either with VirtualBox or KVM). WSL makes Windows useful for Linux development (my software will run on Linux, not Windows), but the rest of Windows is usually a bit of a pain. I usually find the text less readable on Windows than it's on Linux or a Mac. Not sure it's an issue with Edge, my monitor's Gamma or what, but it just looks better on Linux (and perfect on a Mac).
  - michaelcampbell 6y ago
    I've tried both ways there too; at least a few years ago (may be different now) running windows as a HOST worked way better for me since Linux in a VM was way more well behaved than Windows would be.
    - adamnew123456 6y ago
      Curious what kinds of problems you used to run into here that made you give up on Windows guest/Linux host. I've been running my daily driver that way for the past 3 months and haven't hit any issues aside from 2 nits: - Windows 10 basically requires an SSD to get reasonable responsiveness. You could maybe get away with putting a disk image on an SSD, but for serious use it's best to dedicate a whole disk or partition to it. - QEMU's default display adapter started "leaking" pending IO requests at one point, which grinds the VM from full speed to a halt over the course of an hour or so. I ended up disabling the display adapter and moving to just RDP, which is basically an even trade since the RDP client can do everything the SPICE client can.
      - 6y ago
fuzzy2 6y ago
Windows (the technology) is okay. Not good, but okay. Windows (the experience) degrades every day. Everything is slow even though the specs are good. Granted, corporate “additions” like O365 ATP don’t help and aren’t part of the core system. But many users have to bear with them nonetheless. And have you looked through the diagnostic data Windows sends? That cannot be turned off without hacks? They get live notifications when you add or remove hardware, software, when an application has crashed (even when error reporting is off), …. The data contains unique identifiers for your system and user. I don’t even want to know what’s sent when you select full diagnostics. Windows is a privacy and performance nightmare. It’s good for two things only: corporate environments (manageability) and games. --- Well, sorry about that. Just had to get this off my chest.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  >Everything is slow even though the specs are good Have you tried running without antivirus? Some parts of Windosw are still slow eg the filesystem, but the main thing making everything slow is antivirus software IME, including Defender.
  - tuesday20 6y ago
    I had the same experience. Windows became noticeably faster without antivirus. Also other problems like not downloading large files disappeared too.
  - fuzzy2 6y ago
    Corporate IT says no. :) I don’t know what’s wrong with my work PC. Home PC also has Windows (because games) and is super fast (even with Defender, but without ATP).
    - panpanna 6y ago
      From own experience this is 99% corporate shenanigans. You should have a serious talk with your IT department. Sometimes they are not aware how much garbage they are throwing at people through Active Directory. In my experience, the best way around such issues is to force IT to dogfood their own system instead of having special laptops for IT employees.
sneak 6y ago
Windows constantly spies on you, with no way to turn it off. This alone is a dealbreaker.
junon 6y ago
Pretty much my thoughts too. Trying to do game development on macos doesn't make much sense anymore. My next machine will probably be windows, even though I dislike Microsoft and everything they're about.
dcchambers 6y ago
> Wsl 2 is incredible. My experience shows WSL is passable, but it often feels "hacky" and incoherent. For professional work it just doesn't feel right to me. Plus the usability of Windows OS itself is just a complete mess... Honestly, I'd rather just run a regular VM with linux and full-screen that, rather than deal with Windows with Linux bolted on to the side. If work is paying, I'm still going macbook, as I don't really care about the reliability aspect of the machine nor the insane cost of peripherals/the laptop itself. If I'm paying, I'll probably go for a Dell or Lenovo machine and install Linux. I just can't stand using windows any more.

exdsq 6y ago

+1 for WSL 2. I'm a huge advocate of it at work where people are very pro-Linux. I have noticed a few issues with it that don't make sense seeing as it's meant to have a full Linux Kernel (such as sockets not appearing) but that could be Ubuntu-20.04 being the one at fault to be fair :)

the_duke 6y ago
In contrast to WSL1, WSL2 is a full-blown Linux virtual machine. It "just" has some tooling to make integration nicer. So some awkwardness is to be expected.
paulcarroty 6y ago
-1 for WSL. If I need Linux, it will be obviously native. Also WSL doesn't solve: * forced Windows updates when you don't need them * shitload of failed updates: bricked OS, deleted user data etc * stupid non-uninstallable game icons in start menu, a lot of vendor-forever-locked garbage like cortana & one drive * bad fs performance in general
- realusername 6y ago
  That's harsh but I agree with those points, Windows is still a consumer oriented operating system at its core, which has a lot of undesirable features for a developer.
  - C1sc0cat 6y ago
    Like ? You probably should be using a windows pro install and not one with crapware from the manufacturer
    - magicalhippo 6y ago
      Until a feature update ago, I was quite disappointed with Win10 as a dev platform. I'm running Win 10 Pro. Especially Windows Update was just plain intolerable. However some time the past months I realized I don't think about Windows much... which means it's no longer constantly annoying me. There are still stupid things, like Apps display language not being tied to the OS display language setting (wtf?!), but I can live with that. On a day to day basis my machine stays on, is performant, and does what I ask it to.
    - neutronicus 6y ago
      My employer provided workstation ( which presumably uses Pro) is still always spamming me about Teams and OneDrive.
      - 411111111111111 6y ago
        You can disable that with local admin. The domain admin could too, but they're mostly just there to get their paycheck, not to improve your experience so they won't bother.
        Nextgrid 6y ago
        The argument is that you shouldn't have to disable it to begin with.
    - rbanffy 6y ago
      Referring https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23389595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23389595 for a list of undesirable features: * forced Windows updates when you don't need them * shitload of failed updates: bricked OS, deleted user data etc * stupid non-uninstallable game icons in start menu, a lot of vendor-forever-locked garbage like cortana & one drive * bad fs performance in general I'll add a couple of my own (and be a more restrained in my opinions) * Windows + WSL is a hybrid environment. Files are on different places depending on from where you are looking. It feels like developing within Docker containers, without the power and flexibility. * Low observability: very few programs log things and, while there is excellent system wide plumbing for that, very few programs are using it. * PowerShell makes some questionable choices. For instance, "curl" is a built-in command that has different switches from its Unix homonym. It'd cost absolutely nothing to have a different name for that.
  - mmcnl 6y ago
    Is macOS so different? You have to disable notifications manually every day to not have your developer workflow interrupted. The login screen is a 3D cube (weird, random and ugly). Icons in the dock wiggle. You delete applications by dragging them to trash bin. Maximizing Safari is impossible. The list goes on and on.
- disposedtrolley 6y ago
  > stupid non-uninstallable games icons in start menu You can remove them now. At least I was able to in the Windows 10 v.2004 update. Why Candy Crush is included with Windows 10 Pro however is beyond me.
  - qayxc 6y ago
    Why was Solitaire bundled even with the NT (i.e. enterprise/business) versions of Windows? No one ever questioned that, but everybody takes issue with Candy Crush? Weird...
    - michaelt 6y ago
      People see it as less analogous to Solitaire, and more analogous to the McAfee crapware you get bundled with cheap PCs.
      - qayxc 6y ago
        And why is that? I never even once played Solitaire and uninstalled Candy Crush without even looking at it. What's the deal with this sudden hatred towards nonsense that was installed 35 years ago as well and had a way bigger impact on system resources (in terms of disk space and screen real-estate) than Candy Crush? Is it because it's a mobile port - too colourful and too in-your-face about it being a mindless pastime than a boomer-style virtual card game that even came with a "boss-key"?
        jorams 6y ago
        Solitaire and the other games were included just as features. You had to seek them out, and they were there for you to enjoy if you wanted. Candy Crush is given prime real estate in the start menu, and is a highly commercial game with in-app-purchases. It's a straight-up advert.
    - tosers4 6y ago
      Solitaire is not asking you for money
- fuzzy2 6y ago
  WSL 2 does indeed solve the FS performance problem because you’d use the Linux VM’s block device, not the host fs (NTFS).
- C1sc0cat 6y ago
  You can set windows not to update in core hours and even then you can decline the update. I have never had a bricked OS from an windows update You know you can unpin stuff from the start menu to get rid of clutter.
  - ubercow13 6y ago
    If you leave some task processing overnight, that's probably not your 'core hours', unless you set it that way and not in the day. But then what if all your work is lost when an update is installed in your lunch break? It's ridiculous that there is (or was? Not sure if it's changed) no way to never automatically install an update. Remember when Windows 10 was released and there were reports that Windows 8 would literally automatically update to Windows 10 without user intervention [1]. My mother's laptop did that and it bricked her install. The OS taking over control of updates is totally user-hostile. 'Core hours' is just giving a little bit of that control back, it's not a solution. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/15/windows-10-automatically-installs-without-permission-complain-users https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/15/windows-1...
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      I renerally assume that all work can suddenly dissapear unless saved to disk, duew to powercut or app crashing or whatever else. Autosave, etc. If you do have some long task like rendering that takes hours, thats of-course trickier.
      - ubercow13 6y ago
        Yes of course - saving work regularly is good. However apart from long-running tasks you can still lose things like the current state of your desktop and applications. Consider if you were working on something involved and had many applications running all with some complex state set up. You might not lose any data but you have lost the 'working memory' of what you were doing.
- ximeng 6y ago
  There is a problem on Linux with some software not being available or not being as well tested. Despite all the problems with Windows this means that sometimes having it is helpful.
- exdsq 6y ago
  WSL2 is a Linux VM, what's your use-case for native over that? - You can disable updates - I'm on the insider version and this has never happened to me, let alone for 'normal' users. - You can uninstall all of that stuff - It's not that bad, I work on a decentralised database and we have similar performance across Windows and Linux. Windows was a bit tougher to do but it got there :)
  - thomaslord 6y ago
    I'm honestly baffled that you've never experienced an update that bricked your system - how long have you been using Windows? Two years ago Microsoft released an update that killed Windows on my brand new (at the time) desktop (i7-8700k, gtx 1080). I thought "no big deal, I'll boot up my old desktop and deal with it later" but when I turned on that machine (i5-2500k, rx480), it applied the same update and also killed the Windows install. At that point I gave up on using a desktop for the day and booted up Windows on my laptop (i7-7700HQ, gtx 1050m), only to have that also install the update and kill the install. I'd had Windows updates break before that, but always on one machine so it was easy to write off as some driver quirk or something weird I had installed.
    - GordonS 6y ago
      Not the parent, but I've been running Windows for decades on multiple machines (4 different ones at this time) - never once had an update brick a system. You seem to be assuming everyone else is frequently having a problem because you have had it. In reality, these events are rare, which the overwhelming majority of people not having any issue.
    - exdsq 6y ago
      I’ve only worked in tech for six years but I started as a sysadmin and managed a network of ~50 windows computers for two years, and then worked in a windows dev shop for three years, and I’ve never once seen an update brick Windows. I’ve bricked windows by being dumb but I’ve also bricked Linux by being dumb. Sometimes I feel like it’s cool to hate Windows, like it’s cool to hate Java.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  Sometimes i read thing like this and I feel they are from a different universe. I am the first port of call for IT issues of the whole family, including grandma. Like 10 people, and the last time we had issue caused by windows update was like 5 years ago when a laptop was trying to update to W10 from W8. That required a bit of manual intervention. Game icons certainly arent there for me any more. Whats the issue with Onedrive? I mean, its preinstalled, but you dont have to run it.
  - Sangeppato 6y ago
    Lucky you! In the last 6 months Windows tried to install an upgrade, failing endlessly, on both my mother's and sister's laptops. It just tried to upgrade, failed during the reboot, reverted back and booted on the old version, just to start the whole process again after a few hours. And all the Microsoft Windows Update Assistant tools or whatever didn't work at all, so I just clean installed in frustration. TBF though, my 2013 desktop never gave me a single issue on Windows..
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      Paradoxically, driver issues and update issues never show up on any desktops I had, they only show up on laptops with carefully selected and entirely manufacturer-controlled supply chain and parts.
bishalb 6y ago
It's really amazing. I don't know much about Linux, but whenever I need to use some Linux only tool(or works best on linux tool), I just use wsl. Tried using a couple of linux desktops but the user experience is just terrible compared to windows for day to day work and there aren't many softwares available.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  What parts were terrible?
severino 6y ago
> +1 for WSL 2. I'm a huge advocate of it at work where people are very pro-Linux So your co-workers already use Linux (for free, I guess), but now you're trying to convince them to use a restricted Linux version that also costs money. How's that?
- exdsq 6y ago
  We develop cross-platform projects in an environment where Windows is a second-class citizen but accounts for the vast majority of our user base. WSL2 is a really nice stepping stone towards having both operating systems treated equally.

lkramer 6y ago

Out of curiosity, why not simply run Linux at that point?

TomMarius 6y ago
A huge number of small annoyances during "normal" usage of a computer. Issues with sleep, displays, hi DPI, even my wallpaper and fonts don't always display correctly...
- fsflover 6y ago
  Just don't buy "Windows certified" laptops... Upd: why downvotes? My Librem 15 and Lenovo T400 both work flawlessly for many years. They are designed for GNU/Linux.
  - TomMarius 6y ago
    I had Lenovo T530 and it worked OK, but with half the battery life. Then I had XPS 15 and I got it working after a lot of fiddling, but with a third of battery life and with hidpi issues on wake up. The battery thing is really a killer for me.
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    > "Just don't buy "Windows certified" laptops..." All x86 servers, PCs, and laptops are designed to run Windows by adhering to a specification issued by Microsoft and certified by running a suite of compatibility tests provided by Microsoft (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/hlk/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/hlk/). The free OSes are piggybacking on that; there is no independent, neutral standard for the architecture of x86 PCs. > "My Librem 15 and Lenovo T400 both work flawlessly for many years. They are designed for GNU/Linux." Linux isn't even listed as a supported OS for the T400 on Lenovo's support site: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd005598 https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd005598
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

humbfool2 6y ago

I moved to Windows after 5 years of Mac this month. Because I knew I will be working from home, decided to build a good workstation (Thank you Ryzen ) and I Couldn't agree more WSL is very helpful for people who like windows UI and functionalities of Linux. There are few quirks but it works great.

rbanffy 6y ago
My Linux setup is usually like this, but inside out. When I need Windows functions (which is not often), I fire up a VM (either with VirtualBox or KVM). WSL makes Windows useful for Linux development (my software will run on Linux, not Windows), but the rest of Windows is usually a bit of a pain. I usually find the text less readable on Windows than it's on Linux or a Mac. Not sure it's an issue with Edge, my monitor's Gamma or what, but it just looks better on Linux (and perfect on a Mac).
- michaelcampbell 6y ago
  I've tried both ways there too; at least a few years ago (may be different now) running windows as a HOST worked way better for me since Linux in a VM was way more well behaved than Windows would be.
  - adamnew123456 6y ago
    Curious what kinds of problems you used to run into here that made you give up on Windows guest/Linux host. I've been running my daily driver that way for the past 3 months and haven't hit any issues aside from 2 nits: - Windows 10 basically requires an SSD to get reasonable responsiveness. You could maybe get away with putting a disk image on an SSD, but for serious use it's best to dedicate a whole disk or partition to it. - QEMU's default display adapter started "leaking" pending IO requests at one point, which grinds the VM from full speed to a halt over the course of an hour or so. I ended up disabling the display adapter and moving to just RDP, which is basically an even trade since the RDP client can do everything the SPICE client can.
    - 6y ago

fuzzy2 6y ago

Windows (the technology) is okay. Not good, but okay. Windows (the experience) degrades every day. Everything is slow even though the specs are good. Granted, corporate “additions” like O365 ATP don’t help and aren’t part of the core system. But many users have to bear with them nonetheless. And have you looked through the diagnostic data Windows sends? That cannot be turned off without hacks? They get live notifications when you add or remove hardware, software, when an application has crashed (even when error reporting is off), …. The data contains unique identifiers for your system and user. I don’t even want to know what’s sent when you select full diagnostics. Windows is a privacy and performance nightmare. It’s good for two things only: corporate environments (manageability) and games. --- Well, sorry about that. Just had to get this off my chest.

ubercow13 6y ago
>Everything is slow even though the specs are good Have you tried running without antivirus? Some parts of Windosw are still slow eg the filesystem, but the main thing making everything slow is antivirus software IME, including Defender.
- tuesday20 6y ago
  I had the same experience. Windows became noticeably faster without antivirus. Also other problems like not downloading large files disappeared too.
- fuzzy2 6y ago
  Corporate IT says no. :) I don’t know what’s wrong with my work PC. Home PC also has Windows (because games) and is super fast (even with Defender, but without ATP).
  - panpanna 6y ago
    From own experience this is 99% corporate shenanigans. You should have a serious talk with your IT department. Sometimes they are not aware how much garbage they are throwing at people through Active Directory. In my experience, the best way around such issues is to force IT to dogfood their own system instead of having special laptops for IT employees.

sneak 6y ago

Windows constantly spies on you, with no way to turn it off. This alone is a dealbreaker.

junon 6y ago

Pretty much my thoughts too. Trying to do game development on macos doesn't make much sense anymore. My next machine will probably be windows, even though I dislike Microsoft and everything they're about.

dcchambers 6y ago

> Wsl 2 is incredible. My experience shows WSL is passable, but it often feels "hacky" and incoherent. For professional work it just doesn't feel right to me. Plus the usability of Windows OS itself is just a complete mess... Honestly, I'd rather just run a regular VM with linux and full-screen that, rather than deal with Windows with Linux bolted on to the side. If work is paying, I'm still going macbook, as I don't really care about the reliability aspect of the machine nor the insane cost of peripherals/the laptop itself. If I'm paying, I'll probably go for a Dell or Lenovo machine and install Linux. I just can't stand using windows any more.