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> America doesn't have any serious fascist groups - from what I can tell the ruling powers are decidedly corporatist and the first alternative philosophy seems

> America doesn't have any serious fascist groups - from what I can tell the ruling powers are decidedly corporatist and the first alternative philosophy seems to be light/moderate socialism. Corporatism was inseparable from fascism in Italy and Germany. The exploitation of the profit motive is one of the primary reasons that so many people overlooked the atrocities. Fascism is the reason so many companies like IBM, Hugo Boss, L'Oreal, Koch Industries, Audi, Porsche, Adidas, BMW, and countless other extant corporations have dark histories from supporting the German extermination camps to utilizing their slave labor to build their products.

roenxi 6y ago
Fair enough; but am I going to get disagreement when I say the brand of corporatism that currently holds power is pretty obviously not fascism? Quoting a few key sentences from Wikipedia: Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties. Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society. Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation. Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and interventionist economic policies. [0] America doesn't have a serious lobby that believes in those things. There isn't a lobby that is serious about autarchy, there isn't a lobby calling for complete mobilisation and there isn't a lobby calling for a one party state. Apart from maybe the anti-facists I don't know of a lobby promoting political violence. The war and imperialism stuff is possibly true, but that isn't a new thing in American politics - America has been at war my entire lifetime and mostly in the same set of middle eastern countries. The only link between fascism and American politics is that Trump is popular in the Republican party and is happy to stand up and say that the globalism pendulum has swung too far. That is a tenuous link to fascist ideology. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
- dariusj18 6y ago
  > America doesn't have a serious lobby that believes in those things. I've gotta say, the NRA has been getting closer to fitting this. https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals?cycle=2012&id=d000000082 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals?cycle=2012&id=d00000... https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/03/us/nra-details-plan-for-armed-school-guards.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/03/us/nra-details-plan-for-a...
  - pluto9 6y ago
    I'm sorry, I don't understand how either of those links shows that the NRA believes in the things mentioned above. Can you clarify?
    - dariusj18 6y ago
      The NRA is a serious lobby group that is being used to promote a single party. And it's moves toward schools being more heavily policed/militarized organization in the name of safety seem like a stepping stone towards fascism to me. Their original goal, of a rights advocacy group has turned into a partisan dividing tactic.
      - pluto9 6y ago
        Do you expect Planned Parenthood to promote the GOP, and do you consider them fascist for not doing so? Supporting one party over another is not an act of fascism. They promote the GOP because the GOP supports their goals. Do you think it's reasonable to expect them to promote the other party while that party actively works against them? They promote a stronger police presence in schools, but they also support the right of teachers to be armed and able to defend against attackers. In other words, they support teachers being able to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. Whether you agree with that or not, the 2nd Amendment is a decidedly libertarian idea. Fascism is authoritarian by nature. Promoting one of these is mutually exclusive with promoting the other. Regarding police in schools, I don't see how that fits with Wikipedia's definition of fascism: a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy. Perhaps we're operating on different definitions.
dependenttypes 6y ago
> Corporatism was inseparable from fascism in Italy and Germany Corporatism was also inseparable from the political systems in the UK and the US though, wasn't it?
- junke 6y ago
  The reply said "corporatism and fascism" can both exist, not "corporatism implies fascism".
  - dependenttypes 6y ago
    This is what it means. It is a reply to "America doesn't have any serious fascist groups - from what I can tell the ruling powers are decidedly corporatist" after all.

roenxi 6y ago

Fair enough; but am I going to get disagreement when I say the brand of corporatism that currently holds power is pretty obviously not fascism? Quoting a few key sentences from Wikipedia: Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties. Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society. Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation. Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and interventionist economic policies. [0] America doesn't have a serious lobby that believes in those things. There isn't a lobby that is serious about autarchy, there isn't a lobby calling for complete mobilisation and there isn't a lobby calling for a one party state. Apart from maybe the anti-facists I don't know of a lobby promoting political violence. The war and imperialism stuff is possibly true, but that isn't a new thing in American politics - America has been at war my entire lifetime and mostly in the same set of middle eastern countries. The only link between fascism and American politics is that Trump is popular in the Republican party and is happy to stand up and say that the globalism pendulum has swung too far. That is a tenuous link to fascist ideology. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

dariusj18 6y ago
> America doesn't have a serious lobby that believes in those things. I've gotta say, the NRA has been getting closer to fitting this. https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals?cycle=2012&id=d000000082 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals?cycle=2012&id=d00000... https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/03/us/nra-details-plan-for-armed-school-guards.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/03/us/nra-details-plan-for-a...
- pluto9 6y ago
  I'm sorry, I don't understand how either of those links shows that the NRA believes in the things mentioned above. Can you clarify?
  - dariusj18 6y ago
    The NRA is a serious lobby group that is being used to promote a single party. And it's moves toward schools being more heavily policed/militarized organization in the name of safety seem like a stepping stone towards fascism to me. Their original goal, of a rights advocacy group has turned into a partisan dividing tactic.
    - pluto9 6y ago
      Do you expect Planned Parenthood to promote the GOP, and do you consider them fascist for not doing so? Supporting one party over another is not an act of fascism. They promote the GOP because the GOP supports their goals. Do you think it's reasonable to expect them to promote the other party while that party actively works against them? They promote a stronger police presence in schools, but they also support the right of teachers to be armed and able to defend against attackers. In other words, they support teachers being able to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. Whether you agree with that or not, the 2nd Amendment is a decidedly libertarian idea. Fascism is authoritarian by nature. Promoting one of these is mutually exclusive with promoting the other. Regarding police in schools, I don't see how that fits with Wikipedia's definition of fascism: a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy. Perhaps we're operating on different definitions.

dependenttypes 6y ago

> Corporatism was inseparable from fascism in Italy and Germany Corporatism was also inseparable from the political systems in the UK and the US though, wasn't it?

junke 6y ago
The reply said "corporatism and fascism" can both exist, not "corporatism implies fascism".
- dependenttypes 6y ago
  This is what it means. It is a reply to "America doesn't have any serious fascist groups - from what I can tell the ruling powers are decidedly corporatist" after all.