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One of the original points I wanted to push back against is when the parent said that "your clear designation of [antifa] as an enemy is also clear signaling th

One of the original points I wanted to push back against is when the parent said that "your clear designation of [antifa] as an enemy is also clear signaling that you're in for fascism." In particular, I don't think that it is fair to say someone is "in for fascism" just because they call antifa their enemy, or even if they think antifa is a terrorist organization. You can think antifa is a terrorist organization but also be against fascism.

mellow2020 6y ago
> You can think antifa is a terrorist organization but also be against fascism. Without a clear argument as to why antifa is a.) an organization and b.) as such terrorist, I don't think you can. It's like saying "Jews start all wars, I'm against antisemitism".
- PureParadigm 6y ago
  That analogy is not the same at all, and is quite a leap. The difference lies in the double negative in the antifa situation, if you will. The parent was claiming that if you are against antifa ("anti-antifa" such as by calling them a terrorist organization), then you are pro-fascist. But the antifa label comes with a lot more baggage than simply being against fascism. They are known for their militant/violent tendencies, which many people may not support, and some may go as far as to call terroristic. I'm not interested in debating whether or not antifa is a terrorist organization, and doing so is not necessary to support the point I am making. All I am saying is that some people may have a different understanding of antifa, and believe antifa is a terrorist organization not for its stance against fascism, but for its violent methods. These same people may be completely against fascism but oppose those labeled antifa for the baggage associated with such a label. The root issue is the implication that being antifa is nothing more than being against fascism. If that were true, then I agree with you. But it's not. The antifa label has become associated with political violence (just read the Wikipedia article). To most people, it no longer means simply being against fascism, but also has associations to antifa's violent methods. Many of the debates about antifa, and I think also this one, stem from the fact that people have different understandings of what antifa actually means. I think it is deceptive to pretend that antifa means nothing more than being against fascism, in the current political context. Perhaps it meant that in the past, but that is not the common understanding anymore.

mellow2020 6y ago

> You can think antifa is a terrorist organization but also be against fascism. Without a clear argument as to why antifa is a.) an organization and b.) as such terrorist, I don't think you can. It's like saying "Jews start all wars, I'm against antisemitism".

PureParadigm 6y ago
That analogy is not the same at all, and is quite a leap. The difference lies in the double negative in the antifa situation, if you will. The parent was claiming that if you are against antifa ("anti-antifa" such as by calling them a terrorist organization), then you are pro-fascist. But the antifa label comes with a lot more baggage than simply being against fascism. They are known for their militant/violent tendencies, which many people may not support, and some may go as far as to call terroristic. I'm not interested in debating whether or not antifa is a terrorist organization, and doing so is not necessary to support the point I am making. All I am saying is that some people may have a different understanding of antifa, and believe antifa is a terrorist organization not for its stance against fascism, but for its violent methods. These same people may be completely against fascism but oppose those labeled antifa for the baggage associated with such a label. The root issue is the implication that being antifa is nothing more than being against fascism. If that were true, then I agree with you. But it's not. The antifa label has become associated with political violence (just read the Wikipedia article). To most people, it no longer means simply being against fascism, but also has associations to antifa's violent methods. Many of the debates about antifa, and I think also this one, stem from the fact that people have different understandings of what antifa actually means. I think it is deceptive to pretend that antifa means nothing more than being against fascism, in the current political context. Perhaps it meant that in the past, but that is not the common understanding anymore.