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It's literally not an organization. There are lots of people that have anti-fascist stickers or flags or whatever in europe that explicitly exist to stand up fo

It's literally not an organization. There are lots of people that have anti-fascist stickers or flags or whatever in europe that explicitly exist to stand up for people when nazis/neo-nazis show up to protests, or to their squats, or to their homes... they exist to save peoples lives from right-wing violence. It's pitiful that this is the best boogeyman the right can come up with in 2020 and it's extra pitiful that - like everything else they project - it's just them telling on themselves.

throwaway2048 6y ago
its even more pitiful how many are cheerleading this shit on HN
- astronautjones 6y ago
  I don't think you're allowed to point it out here, but there is a large audience here that is a massive part of the problem. rich, influential people with power (whether they use it or not) riding this generation's wave of prosperity with no knowledge of or interest in the people that are affected by their jobs and lifestyles. smart enough to learn to code or to polish a pitch to a vc, but lacking any critical thinking skills or morality that would cause them to reflect on their position in society. flocking to the right at the first hint of something that does reflect these truths. supporting fascists because you're scared or uncomfortable is even worse than supporting fascists because you're a bigot imo
  - nailer 6y ago
    Antifa literally exist to use violence upon people who don't share their politics, which is one of the hallmarks of fascism. Naming yourself "the good guys" doesn't mean anyone who opposes you is bad. It's like if someone said disliking 'Make America Great Again' means you don't want America to be great. Or opposing the Patriot Act makes you not a patriot. You know this, everyone else reading this knows this, stop pretending we don't.
    - astronautjones 6y ago
      no, they don't! what are you talking about? I have been to places where people have to defend themselves from neo nazis coming to beat them up for being gay. it is a label that indicates reactive protection from fascist violence, period
      - nailer 6y ago
        I think my post was pretty clear. The fact that nazis exist doesn't invalidate it. Again you probably know this so I'm not going to bother replying further.
        joshuamorton 6y ago
        Equivocation between literal facicts and people who want to fight literal facists doesn't make a lot of sense. So no, I really, truly have no clue what you're getting at. Like as far as I can tell you're saying "being willing to punch a Nazi makes you a Nazi". Which, like, no.
        malka 6y ago
        saying antifa = facist is the hallmark of facist supporters.
        textgel 6y ago
        Claiming an evidently violent group is beyond reproach would raise questions about the morality of the claimant.
        junke 6y ago
        "Beyond reproach", a claim made by whom?
        malka 6y ago
        nobody said they are not beyond reproach. However, they are not facists.
  - pathseeker 6y ago
    >smart enough to learn to code or to polish a pitch to a vc, but lacking any critical thinking skills or morality that would cause them to reflect on their position in society. Sure, people that disagree with your viewpoints lack critical thinking and morality. Painting people who disagree with you as immoral idiots just sounds like you're not able to defend your beliefs.
    - lukifer 6y ago
      Obligatory plug for Jonathon Haidt: https://righteousmind.com/ https://righteousmind.com/ People start with moral intuitions first and work backwards to find reasons. Fallacies, ignorance, and sloppy thinking is quasi-deliberate, to satisfy a priori values of what is sacred and what is profane, who are the good people and who are the bad people.
  - sdkjfhskjfh 6y ago
    > smart enough to learn to code You're being far too generous here.
AnthonyMouse 6y ago
> It's literally not an organization. And that's the problem. This story is natural clickbait because you have literal fascists claiming to be anti-fascist, which is an obvious contradiction. But if Antifa is just anybody who is against fascism then violent anti-fascists are Antifa. You can't say they're not when they actually are against fascism. And without any official leadership to disavow the advocation of violence, now your label is tainted by violent evildoers and you get to enter the grab-bag of boogymen for whenever somebody needs one.
- malka 6y ago
  you dont stand against facism with nice words. You stand against facism with violence. Because facism is violent by nature.
  - nicky0 6y ago
    Using violence to coerce people is fascism. How a violent activist group can claim to be anti-fascist is beyond me. They have become the thing they claim to hate.
    - frabbit 6y ago
      No it's not. Fascism uses violence to coerce people. Pretty much every ideological system that is in power uses violence to coerce people. Liberals uses the police to coerce the majority of the population to not take their stuff. Conservatives do the same thing. The great western democracies used violence to coerce the nazis to not occupy their states. Your definition is meaningless and imprecise.
      - nicky0 6y ago
        Your response is obtuse and patently ridiculous.
  - ForHackernews 6y ago
    Fine, whatever. You want your civil war so much, you better be willing to be on front lines getting shot at; no whining about brutality, either. Maybe this isn't you, but I'm just sick to death of keyboard warriors and tweety radicals who've never experienced violence (let alone meted it out) posturing online.

throwaway2048 6y ago

its even more pitiful how many are cheerleading this shit on HN

astronautjones 6y ago
I don't think you're allowed to point it out here, but there is a large audience here that is a massive part of the problem. rich, influential people with power (whether they use it or not) riding this generation's wave of prosperity with no knowledge of or interest in the people that are affected by their jobs and lifestyles. smart enough to learn to code or to polish a pitch to a vc, but lacking any critical thinking skills or morality that would cause them to reflect on their position in society. flocking to the right at the first hint of something that does reflect these truths. supporting fascists because you're scared or uncomfortable is even worse than supporting fascists because you're a bigot imo
- nailer 6y ago
  Antifa literally exist to use violence upon people who don't share their politics, which is one of the hallmarks of fascism. Naming yourself "the good guys" doesn't mean anyone who opposes you is bad. It's like if someone said disliking 'Make America Great Again' means you don't want America to be great. Or opposing the Patriot Act makes you not a patriot. You know this, everyone else reading this knows this, stop pretending we don't.
  - astronautjones 6y ago
    no, they don't! what are you talking about? I have been to places where people have to defend themselves from neo nazis coming to beat them up for being gay. it is a label that indicates reactive protection from fascist violence, period
    - nailer 6y ago
      I think my post was pretty clear. The fact that nazis exist doesn't invalidate it. Again you probably know this so I'm not going to bother replying further.
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        Equivocation between literal facicts and people who want to fight literal facists doesn't make a lot of sense. So no, I really, truly have no clue what you're getting at. Like as far as I can tell you're saying "being willing to punch a Nazi makes you a Nazi". Which, like, no.
        malka 6y ago
        saying antifa = facist is the hallmark of facist supporters.
        textgel 6y ago
        Claiming an evidently violent group is beyond reproach would raise questions about the morality of the claimant.
        junke 6y ago
        "Beyond reproach", a claim made by whom?
        malka 6y ago
        nobody said they are not beyond reproach. However, they are not facists.
- pathseeker 6y ago
  >smart enough to learn to code or to polish a pitch to a vc, but lacking any critical thinking skills or morality that would cause them to reflect on their position in society. Sure, people that disagree with your viewpoints lack critical thinking and morality. Painting people who disagree with you as immoral idiots just sounds like you're not able to defend your beliefs.
  - lukifer 6y ago
    Obligatory plug for Jonathon Haidt: https://righteousmind.com/ https://righteousmind.com/ People start with moral intuitions first and work backwards to find reasons. Fallacies, ignorance, and sloppy thinking is quasi-deliberate, to satisfy a priori values of what is sacred and what is profane, who are the good people and who are the bad people.
- sdkjfhskjfh 6y ago
  > smart enough to learn to code You're being far too generous here.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

> It's literally not an organization. And that's the problem. This story is natural clickbait because you have literal fascists claiming to be anti-fascist, which is an obvious contradiction. But if Antifa is just anybody who is against fascism then violent anti-fascists are Antifa. You can't say they're not when they actually are against fascism. And without any official leadership to disavow the advocation of violence, now your label is tainted by violent evildoers and you get to enter the grab-bag of boogymen for whenever somebody needs one.

malka 6y ago
you dont stand against facism with nice words. You stand against facism with violence. Because facism is violent by nature.
- nicky0 6y ago
  Using violence to coerce people is fascism. How a violent activist group can claim to be anti-fascist is beyond me. They have become the thing they claim to hate.
  - frabbit 6y ago
    No it's not. Fascism uses violence to coerce people. Pretty much every ideological system that is in power uses violence to coerce people. Liberals uses the police to coerce the majority of the population to not take their stuff. Conservatives do the same thing. The great western democracies used violence to coerce the nazis to not occupy their states. Your definition is meaningless and imprecise.
    - nicky0 6y ago
      Your response is obtuse and patently ridiculous.
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  Fine, whatever. You want your civil war so much, you better be willing to be on front lines getting shot at; no whining about brutality, either. Maybe this isn't you, but I'm just sick to death of keyboard warriors and tweety radicals who've never experienced violence (let alone meted it out) posturing online.