5 ms·

Disbanding the existing police force is possible without conflict, though it would require the local government taking action, having a plan, etc.

by billme 6y ago

0x8BADF00D 6y ago
One possible solution is to deputize local law abiding citizens temporarily. And rehire officers that undergo stricter training.
pjc50 6y ago
May I suggest a template: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ruc-will-cease-to-exist-as-new-structures-replace-it-1.215921 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ruc-will-cease-to-exist-as-n... The "replacement" of the RUC with the PSNI was achieved without interruption or total turnover of personnel, but managed to change the ethos and image enough to bring peace enough to Northern Ireland. At the same time, the troops with a record of shooting civilians were withdrawn from the streets. It's not perfect, but it's definitely a success.
csharptwdec19 6y ago
There's in-betweens. [0] [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
adrianN 6y ago
Where I live we have trouble training enough new police officers to keep the number of officers stable or slightly increasing. I can't imagine that replacing the whole force is possible in the short term.
- jeffdavis 6y ago
  The point is, if citizens are armed, they can keep the peace (more or less) without police for a while.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - adrianN 6y ago
    I don't think that the peace comes from guns. Police in my country very rarely use theirs. And "for a while" can be quite long if you need to find and train a complete new police force. Besides, I'd rather have somewhat trained but biased and bad police officers, than a completely untrained mob enforcing the law.
    - adt2bt 6y ago
      I agree. It feels very American to believe we cannot keep peace without the persistent threat of having your life ended.
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      > I don't think that the peace comes from guns. Police in my country very rarely use theirs. It comes from having them, not from using them. You don't have to shoot at gangs robbing everybody at knifepoint if the threat of getting shot deters them from going around robbing everybody at knifepoint. > And "for a while" can be quite long if you need to find and train a complete new police force. In practice most of what the police do is paperwork and interviews. If the general population is armed (so the deterrent is still there) then you could take the guns away from the police and never have them leave the police station and still almost all of the policework would get done.
      - adrianN 6y ago
        How would that work in practice? Say I have a traffic accident and the other party is uncooperative. We both threaten to use our guns unless the other party admits fault and then somehow the necessary paperwork for an insurance claim gets done? Or my neighbors decide that 2am is a great time for some jackhammering. I threaten to shoot them unless they stop? They threaten to shoot me in turn? Does this depend on righteous mobs of gun owners assembling and holding an impromptu court martial?
- billme 6y ago
  Obviously would not be easy, but it is possible: https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-camden-disbands-police-force-for-new-department.html https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-c...
  - kirykl 6y ago
    They replaced the force with itself mostly tho: “ The Camden County Police Department rehired most of the laid-off cops, along with nearly 100 other officers, but at much lower salaries and with fewer benefits than they had received from the city.”

Disbanding the existing police force is possible without conflict, though it would require the local government taking action, having a plan, etc.

by billme 6y ago

Disbanding the existing police force is possible without conflict, though it would require the local government taking action, having a plan, etc.

0x8BADF00D 6y ago

One possible solution is to deputize local law abiding citizens temporarily. And rehire officers that undergo stricter training.

pjc50 6y ago

May I suggest a template: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ruc-will-cease-to-exist-as-new-structures-replace-it-1.215921 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ruc-will-cease-to-exist-as-n... The "replacement" of the RUC with the PSNI was achieved without interruption or total turnover of personnel, but managed to change the ethos and image enough to bring peace enough to Northern Ireland. At the same time, the troops with a record of shooting civilians were withdrawn from the streets. It's not perfect, but it's definitely a success.

csharptwdec19 6y ago

There's in-betweens. [0] [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

adrianN 6y ago

Where I live we have trouble training enough new police officers to keep the number of officers stable or slightly increasing. I can't imagine that replacing the whole force is possible in the short term.

jeffdavis 6y ago
The point is, if citizens are armed, they can keep the peace (more or less) without police for a while.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- adrianN 6y ago
  I don't think that the peace comes from guns. Police in my country very rarely use theirs. And "for a while" can be quite long if you need to find and train a complete new police force. Besides, I'd rather have somewhat trained but biased and bad police officers, than a completely untrained mob enforcing the law.
  - adt2bt 6y ago
    I agree. It feels very American to believe we cannot keep peace without the persistent threat of having your life ended.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > I don't think that the peace comes from guns. Police in my country very rarely use theirs. It comes from having them, not from using them. You don't have to shoot at gangs robbing everybody at knifepoint if the threat of getting shot deters them from going around robbing everybody at knifepoint. > And "for a while" can be quite long if you need to find and train a complete new police force. In practice most of what the police do is paperwork and interviews. If the general population is armed (so the deterrent is still there) then you could take the guns away from the police and never have them leave the police station and still almost all of the policework would get done.
    - adrianN 6y ago
      How would that work in practice? Say I have a traffic accident and the other party is uncooperative. We both threaten to use our guns unless the other party admits fault and then somehow the necessary paperwork for an insurance claim gets done? Or my neighbors decide that 2am is a great time for some jackhammering. I threaten to shoot them unless they stop? They threaten to shoot me in turn? Does this depend on righteous mobs of gun owners assembling and holding an impromptu court martial?
billme 6y ago
Obviously would not be easy, but it is possible: https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-camden-disbands-police-force-for-new-department.html https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-c...
- kirykl 6y ago
  They replaced the force with itself mostly tho: “ The Camden County Police Department rehired most of the laid-off cops, along with nearly 100 other officers, but at much lower salaries and with fewer benefits than they had received from the city.”