6 ms·

The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? It started with violating the rights of non-citizens by throwing them and the

by pm90 6y ago

The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? It started with violating the rights of non-citizens by throwing them and their families in cages. Its building on centuries of black oppression and a nationwide corps of officers lead to believe certain class of Americans to be less than human. Today, the president used American Military-lite in a completely unnecessary display of machismo, to terrorize groups of peaceful Citizen protesters and continues to do so by semi-wartime methods. The CBP has offered its help in brutalizing another class of people; these are the same group of people who have been let loose on border communities with little repercussions for their actions. Unchecked, the fascism will grow until there is nothing left to contain it. Its clear to the present occupant of the White House that winning fairly is not possible. Using emergencies as a pretext for grabbing on to power is an entirely predicable playbook, and yet Americans seem utterly powerless to stop what they know in their hearts is going to happen.

Trasmatta 6y ago
We are listening, but honestly I don't know that to do. I feel helpless and scared (which is what they want, of course).
- ironman1478 6y ago
  I feel the same way. What exactly can we do other than vote? Protesting doesn't seem to actually work (in America anymore at least).
  - jondwillis 6y ago
    Have you tried prolonged, painful protest? That’s what I am preparing myself to do, mind, body, and soul. Honesty feeling hopeful for the first time in awhile, bullish on protest and I think that tech can be leveraged in a significant way
    - ironman1478 6y ago
      Maybe you are right and I won't pooh-pooh anybody who participates, but what about when Freddie Grey was killed? Similar thing happened in 2015, protests around the country and that didn't seem to accomplish anything. The protests now are much larger it seems this time, but unless they go on for a while (which I hope they do), I just don't see anything changing. It seems like law enforcement isn't going to have a sudden change of heart because people are telling them they are wrong and local politicians don't seem to be effective at enacting change in their police departments.
  - baddox 6y ago
    The American people made their preferences clear in the 2016 election. That clearly does not work.
- gre 6y ago
  General strike.
  - jondwillis 6y ago
    Default on debts, boycotts, deplatforming and platform advantages that could be leveraged. Lots of ways to cause pain where it hurts most...
    - SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
      > Have you tried prolonged, painful protest? That’s what I am preparing myself to do, mind, body, and soul. Honesty feeling hopeful for the first time in awhile, bullish on protest and I think that tech can be leveraged in a significant way Looking over your posts in this thread, you seem eager to deploy censorship and violence so long as it’s against people you disagree with. Surely that could never turn around on you! Right? Think past your nose on this, think of there were even “sides” here and Obama was president and some far right people were causing riots, would you really want them to use censorship via “platform advantages” and violence of painful protest? Can you imagine no scenario where you aren’t on the side of the majority?
      - jondwillis 6y ago
        For anyone else looking for my previous posts promoting violence and censorship, you won’t find them. troll
almost_usual 6y ago
Authoritarianism is on the rise and with the US, China, and Russia becoming ever more powerful I’m having a hard time imagining a future without it. It’s depressing.
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
Are the people who didn't vote four years ago going to the polls this time? Complacency is no less of a problem.
mydongle 6y ago
Can't listen over the sound of businesses being burned down and innocent people crying out of terror.
- hedora 6y ago
  The looters and violent people at these events are distinct groups from the protesters. There are many groups, but the most effective one is a right wing movement that is trying to start a second civil war by touching off race riots. Apparently international anarchists, and foreign governments’ misinformation campaigns are also making strong showings. Trump claims Antifa is too (though he has not provided any evidence to back that up). Some of the right wingers have been caught with bombs, etc. Some have been firing weapons into crowds in an attempt to get police to shoot innocent people (and at least one person in Louisville was killed this way) All of the major US news (except fox) networks are covering this continuously and showing pictures of the perpetrators, etc. If you don’t believe their reporters, they also usually live stream the protests from the ground and the sky, so you can see for yourself. They covered a half dozen cities tonight.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- whymauri 6y ago
  I don't understand this. The warning signs of the current administration's fascist-adjacent policies have been here for four years. Please do not pretend that it's now that Americans cannot heed those signs due to protests, especially when the protests are partially in response to the current administration.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    More that many Americans will now see fascism as providing a certain method of protection. Plenty of authoritarians are popularly elected based on some threat.
    - whymauri 6y ago
nodesocket 6y ago
I am certain to be in the minority, but how is this much different than seeing humvee and military armored police vehicles rolling down streets as of late? The helicopters were performing recon and visuals, again how is that different than police helicopters in LA that follow high speed chases? This particular helicopter story feels overblown and out of touch.
- andrewzah 6y ago
  > at least under Federal Aviation Administration rules, this maneuver was very illegal. > § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: (b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft. > New York Times reporter Thomas Gibbons-Neff said that one of the Black Hawks had flown so low that it broke a large branch off a tree with its rotor wash, which fell, but thankfully didn't injure anyone on the ground below.
  - salawat 6y ago
    So who do you think is going to prosecute that? For that matter, how do you plan to get passed power of the Pardon the President wields? The Senate abdicated their responsibility and chance to hold Trump accountable. This is the outcome. I don't like the looks of either side of this bloody conflict.
    - salawat 6y ago
      Look, I want to be clear. I think the Democrats had a case, but didn't pick their issues correctly at the impeachment. I also think the Republicans completely missed the point that their candidate had totally shattered pretty much every historical bound of decency in terms of responsible, dignified behavior as expected of a President. If that vote had been much closer, we might see a bit more restraint coming from the President's office right now. That didn't happen. I just want to be clear that there is nothing that makes me more nervous than a President who is shown no sign of being second guessed by the Legislature, especially during a crisis. It wouldn't even matter if roles were reversed and it were Hillary in the White House with Democrats in control of the Senate. I'd still be calling them out. It is so easy to get carried away by the reins of power. Most people do not realize just how well equipped the Government is to go full authoritarian if it came down to it. The only thing that has kept that from happening has been our value system doing a fairly decent job of keeping that tendency in check. Or at least it seemed to be prior to 2001.
mysticpipuo 6y ago
What a sad day for hacker news when the parent post is the top post and this is a comment so far fetched in reality... The Threatened use of military is not new. It was deployed during the riots in the 90s Did you allude to illegal immigrants who broke into the country and was put in jail until they are processed as “families in cages”? The use of police and national guards has always been used by every country to deal with rioters and looters. I still don’t see any examples of fascism.
chrisco255 6y ago
The emergencies are all in Democrat run cities, where there's complete anarchy. Businesses are being smashed in, apartments are being burn to the ground. A world war 2 memorial was defaced. A church was burned. The Lincoln memorial was defaced. Macy's, the host of the Thanksgiving parade, has been completely raided and destroyed in NYC. Hundreds of Businesses were destroyed in Minneapolis, many who serve minority neighborhoods, provide jobs and essential services, completely wrecked. By my count 20+ cities have experienced intense destruction in the last 72 hours. I'm sorry but the cop who supposedly caused this all has already been arrested and transferred to maximum security prison where he awaits murder charges. If that's not enough for you, then you don't give a damn about justice. Meanwhile you cannot let domestic terror reign. That is not justice. That's chaos.
- pm90 6y ago
  Don't distract from what's happening my friend. The American President had absolutely no need to let loose the military on peaceful protestors as he did today, simply to get a photo op in front of a church. The majority of the protests across the country have been peaceful, with a minority engaging in rioting and looting. If that's what you choose to focus on, then you don't give a damn about justice.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    Yes I choose to focus on that. It's destroying the fabric of these cities. It will cost these cities decades to come back, if ever, from the decimation. On the other side of this is poverty, ruin, and gang violence. That's what happens when you burn the core of your city down. I also see hateful graffiti sprayed all over my city about cops, despite the fact that the vast majority of them are peaceful and lawful and mean well for their communities. That seems to be lost on people as mob mentality has taken over.
    - pm90 6y ago
      I'm really sorry that your precious neighborhood has been defaced by graffiti. Its certainly as serious as the police systematically killing the people of non-white communities. > It's destroying the fabric of these cities. It will cost these cities decades to come back, if ever, from the decimation. On the other side of this is poverty, ruin, and gang violence. There is absolutely no evidence of anything close to that level of destruction of property. The majority of protests have been peaceful. And you seem to have no idea about what causes poverty, ruin and gang violence (hint: its not the destruction of Macy's stores).
MattGaiser 6y ago
> The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? When people feel that their security is threatened, they welcome fascism with open arms. Large numbers of Americans are going to cheer this on.
- uniqueid 6y ago
  It sure seems like much of the nonsense sweeping the world is rooted in the technical design on the web. The internet we have punishes educated, honest, kind, good actors. The internet we have rewards ignorant, dishonest, malevolent, connivers. It's hard for the average person to reason about political issues when trolls and grifters and morons monopolize the public discourse.
oyra 6y ago
> to terrorize groups of peaceful Citizen protesters Peaceful?! Wow... > The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? What are you listening/smoking, dude? Fascism is shown by liberals (aka socialists/communists) who are trying to get as much power over people they can manage (this is classic definition of fascims, btw); or 'antifa' movement who exactly resembles Hitler's brown-shirts. It was well orchestrated attempt to enter White House premises by f*king peaceful protesters. In other cities there are some peaceful protests daytime that turns riot come night, mostly by low life scam who couldn't care less about justice.

by pm90 6y ago

Trasmatta 6y ago

We are listening, but honestly I don't know that to do. I feel helpless and scared (which is what they want, of course).

ironman1478 6y ago
I feel the same way. What exactly can we do other than vote? Protesting doesn't seem to actually work (in America anymore at least).
- jondwillis 6y ago
  Have you tried prolonged, painful protest? That’s what I am preparing myself to do, mind, body, and soul. Honesty feeling hopeful for the first time in awhile, bullish on protest and I think that tech can be leveraged in a significant way
  - ironman1478 6y ago
    Maybe you are right and I won't pooh-pooh anybody who participates, but what about when Freddie Grey was killed? Similar thing happened in 2015, protests around the country and that didn't seem to accomplish anything. The protests now are much larger it seems this time, but unless they go on for a while (which I hope they do), I just don't see anything changing. It seems like law enforcement isn't going to have a sudden change of heart because people are telling them they are wrong and local politicians don't seem to be effective at enacting change in their police departments.
- baddox 6y ago
  The American people made their preferences clear in the 2016 election. That clearly does not work.
gre 6y ago
General strike.
- jondwillis 6y ago
  Default on debts, boycotts, deplatforming and platform advantages that could be leveraged. Lots of ways to cause pain where it hurts most...
  - SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
    > Have you tried prolonged, painful protest? That’s what I am preparing myself to do, mind, body, and soul. Honesty feeling hopeful for the first time in awhile, bullish on protest and I think that tech can be leveraged in a significant way Looking over your posts in this thread, you seem eager to deploy censorship and violence so long as it’s against people you disagree with. Surely that could never turn around on you! Right? Think past your nose on this, think of there were even “sides” here and Obama was president and some far right people were causing riots, would you really want them to use censorship via “platform advantages” and violence of painful protest? Can you imagine no scenario where you aren’t on the side of the majority?
    - jondwillis 6y ago
      For anyone else looking for my previous posts promoting violence and censorship, you won’t find them. troll

almost_usual 6y ago

Authoritarianism is on the rise and with the US, China, and Russia becoming ever more powerful I’m having a hard time imagining a future without it. It’s depressing.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago

Are the people who didn't vote four years ago going to the polls this time? Complacency is no less of a problem.

mydongle 6y ago

Can't listen over the sound of businesses being burned down and innocent people crying out of terror.

hedora 6y ago
The looters and violent people at these events are distinct groups from the protesters. There are many groups, but the most effective one is a right wing movement that is trying to start a second civil war by touching off race riots. Apparently international anarchists, and foreign governments’ misinformation campaigns are also making strong showings. Trump claims Antifa is too (though he has not provided any evidence to back that up). Some of the right wingers have been caught with bombs, etc. Some have been firing weapons into crowds in an attempt to get police to shoot innocent people (and at least one person in Louisville was killed this way) All of the major US news (except fox) networks are covering this continuously and showing pictures of the perpetrators, etc. If you don’t believe their reporters, they also usually live stream the protests from the ground and the sky, so you can see for yourself. They covered a half dozen cities tonight.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
whymauri 6y ago
I don't understand this. The warning signs of the current administration's fascist-adjacent policies have been here for four years. Please do not pretend that it's now that Americans cannot heed those signs due to protests, especially when the protests are partially in response to the current administration.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  More that many Americans will now see fascism as providing a certain method of protection. Plenty of authoritarians are popularly elected based on some threat.
  - whymauri 6y ago

nodesocket 6y ago

I am certain to be in the minority, but how is this much different than seeing humvee and military armored police vehicles rolling down streets as of late? The helicopters were performing recon and visuals, again how is that different than police helicopters in LA that follow high speed chases? This particular helicopter story feels overblown and out of touch.

andrewzah 6y ago
> at least under Federal Aviation Administration rules, this maneuver was very illegal. > § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: (b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft. > New York Times reporter Thomas Gibbons-Neff said that one of the Black Hawks had flown so low that it broke a large branch off a tree with its rotor wash, which fell, but thankfully didn't injure anyone on the ground below.
- salawat 6y ago
  So who do you think is going to prosecute that? For that matter, how do you plan to get passed power of the Pardon the President wields? The Senate abdicated their responsibility and chance to hold Trump accountable. This is the outcome. I don't like the looks of either side of this bloody conflict.
  - salawat 6y ago
    Look, I want to be clear. I think the Democrats had a case, but didn't pick their issues correctly at the impeachment. I also think the Republicans completely missed the point that their candidate had totally shattered pretty much every historical bound of decency in terms of responsible, dignified behavior as expected of a President. If that vote had been much closer, we might see a bit more restraint coming from the President's office right now. That didn't happen. I just want to be clear that there is nothing that makes me more nervous than a President who is shown no sign of being second guessed by the Legislature, especially during a crisis. It wouldn't even matter if roles were reversed and it were Hillary in the White House with Democrats in control of the Senate. I'd still be calling them out. It is so easy to get carried away by the reins of power. Most people do not realize just how well equipped the Government is to go full authoritarian if it came down to it. The only thing that has kept that from happening has been our value system doing a fairly decent job of keeping that tendency in check. Or at least it seemed to be prior to 2001.

mysticpipuo 6y ago

What a sad day for hacker news when the parent post is the top post and this is a comment so far fetched in reality... The Threatened use of military is not new. It was deployed during the riots in the 90s Did you allude to illegal immigrants who broke into the country and was put in jail until they are processed as “families in cages”? The use of police and national guards has always been used by every country to deal with rioters and looters. I still don’t see any examples of fascism.

chrisco255 6y ago

The emergencies are all in Democrat run cities, where there's complete anarchy. Businesses are being smashed in, apartments are being burn to the ground. A world war 2 memorial was defaced. A church was burned. The Lincoln memorial was defaced. Macy's, the host of the Thanksgiving parade, has been completely raided and destroyed in NYC. Hundreds of Businesses were destroyed in Minneapolis, many who serve minority neighborhoods, provide jobs and essential services, completely wrecked. By my count 20+ cities have experienced intense destruction in the last 72 hours. I'm sorry but the cop who supposedly caused this all has already been arrested and transferred to maximum security prison where he awaits murder charges. If that's not enough for you, then you don't give a damn about justice. Meanwhile you cannot let domestic terror reign. That is not justice. That's chaos.

pm90 6y ago
Don't distract from what's happening my friend. The American President had absolutely no need to let loose the military on peaceful protestors as he did today, simply to get a photo op in front of a church. The majority of the protests across the country have been peaceful, with a minority engaging in rioting and looting. If that's what you choose to focus on, then you don't give a damn about justice.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Yes I choose to focus on that. It's destroying the fabric of these cities. It will cost these cities decades to come back, if ever, from the decimation. On the other side of this is poverty, ruin, and gang violence. That's what happens when you burn the core of your city down. I also see hateful graffiti sprayed all over my city about cops, despite the fact that the vast majority of them are peaceful and lawful and mean well for their communities. That seems to be lost on people as mob mentality has taken over.
  - pm90 6y ago
    I'm really sorry that your precious neighborhood has been defaced by graffiti. Its certainly as serious as the police systematically killing the people of non-white communities. > It's destroying the fabric of these cities. It will cost these cities decades to come back, if ever, from the decimation. On the other side of this is poverty, ruin, and gang violence. There is absolutely no evidence of anything close to that level of destruction of property. The majority of protests have been peaceful. And you seem to have no idea about what causes poverty, ruin and gang violence (hint: its not the destruction of Macy's stores).

MattGaiser 6y ago

> The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? When people feel that their security is threatened, they welcome fascism with open arms. Large numbers of Americans are going to cheer this on.

uniqueid 6y ago
It sure seems like much of the nonsense sweeping the world is rooted in the technical design on the web. The internet we have punishes educated, honest, kind, good actors. The internet we have rewards ignorant, dishonest, malevolent, connivers. It's hard for the average person to reason about political issues when trolls and grifters and morons monopolize the public discourse.

oyra 6y ago

> to terrorize groups of peaceful Citizen protesters Peaceful?! Wow... > The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? What are you listening/smoking, dude? Fascism is shown by liberals (aka socialists/communists) who are trying to get as much power over people they can manage (this is classic definition of fascims, btw); or 'antifa' movement who exactly resembles Hitler's brown-shirts. It was well orchestrated attempt to enter White House premises by f*king peaceful protesters. In other cities there are some peaceful protests daytime that turns riot come night, mostly by low life scam who couldn't care less about justice.