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Military Helicopters Descend on Washington in Bizarre Low-Altitude Show of Force

pm90 6y ago
The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? It started with violating the rights of non-citizens by throwing them and their families in cages. Its building on centuries of black oppression and a nationwide corps of officers lead to believe certain class of Americans to be less than human. Today, the president used American Military-lite in a completely unnecessary display of machismo, to terrorize groups of peaceful Citizen protesters and continues to do so by semi-wartime methods. The CBP has offered its help in brutalizing another class of people; these are the same group of people who have been let loose on border communities with little repercussions for their actions. Unchecked, the fascism will grow until there is nothing left to contain it. Its clear to the present occupant of the White House that winning fairly is not possible. Using emergencies as a pretext for grabbing on to power is an entirely predicable playbook, and yet Americans seem utterly powerless to stop what they know in their hearts is going to happen.
- Trasmatta 6y ago
  We are listening, but honestly I don't know that to do. I feel helpless and scared (which is what they want, of course).
  - ironman1478 6y ago
    I feel the same way. What exactly can we do other than vote? Protesting doesn't seem to actually work (in America anymore at least).
    - jondwillis 6y ago
      Have you tried prolonged, painful protest? That’s what I am preparing myself to do, mind, body, and soul. Honesty feeling hopeful for the first time in awhile, bullish on protest and I think that tech can be leveraged in a significant way
      - ironman1478 6y ago
        Maybe you are right and I won't pooh-pooh anybody who participates, but what about when Freddie Grey was killed? Similar thing happened in 2015, protests around the country and that didn't seem to accomplish anything. The protests now are much larger it seems this time, but unless they go on for a while (which I hope they do), I just don't see anything changing. It seems like law enforcement isn't going to have a sudden change of heart because people are telling them they are wrong and local politicians don't seem to be effective at enacting change in their police departments.
    - baddox 6y ago
      The American people made their preferences clear in the 2016 election. That clearly does not work.
  - gre 6y ago
    General strike.
    - jondwillis 6y ago
      Default on debts, boycotts, deplatforming and platform advantages that could be leveraged. Lots of ways to cause pain where it hurts most...
      - SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
        > Have you tried prolonged, painful protest? That’s what I am preparing myself to do, mind, body, and soul. Honesty feeling hopeful for the first time in awhile, bullish on protest and I think that tech can be leveraged in a significant way Looking over your posts in this thread, you seem eager to deploy censorship and violence so long as it’s against people you disagree with. Surely that could never turn around on you! Right? Think past your nose on this, think of there were even “sides” here and Obama was president and some far right people were causing riots, would you really want them to use censorship via “platform advantages” and violence of painful protest? Can you imagine no scenario where you aren’t on the side of the majority?
        jondwillis 6y ago
        For anyone else looking for my previous posts promoting violence and censorship, you won’t find them. troll
- almost_usual 6y ago
  Authoritarianism is on the rise and with the US, China, and Russia becoming ever more powerful I’m having a hard time imagining a future without it. It’s depressing.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Are the people who didn't vote four years ago going to the polls this time? Complacency is no less of a problem.
- mydongle 6y ago
  Can't listen over the sound of businesses being burned down and innocent people crying out of terror.
  - hedora 6y ago
    The looters and violent people at these events are distinct groups from the protesters. There are many groups, but the most effective one is a right wing movement that is trying to start a second civil war by touching off race riots. Apparently international anarchists, and foreign governments’ misinformation campaigns are also making strong showings. Trump claims Antifa is too (though he has not provided any evidence to back that up). Some of the right wingers have been caught with bombs, etc. Some have been firing weapons into crowds in an attempt to get police to shoot innocent people (and at least one person in Louisville was killed this way) All of the major US news (except fox) networks are covering this continuously and showing pictures of the perpetrators, etc. If you don’t believe their reporters, they also usually live stream the protests from the ground and the sky, so you can see for yourself. They covered a half dozen cities tonight.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - whymauri 6y ago
    I don't understand this. The warning signs of the current administration's fascist-adjacent policies have been here for four years. Please do not pretend that it's now that Americans cannot heed those signs due to protests, especially when the protests are partially in response to the current administration.
    - MattGaiser 6y ago
      More that many Americans will now see fascism as providing a certain method of protection. Plenty of authoritarians are popularly elected based on some threat.
      - whymauri 6y ago
- nodesocket 6y ago
  I am certain to be in the minority, but how is this much different than seeing humvee and military armored police vehicles rolling down streets as of late? The helicopters were performing recon and visuals, again how is that different than police helicopters in LA that follow high speed chases? This particular helicopter story feels overblown and out of touch.
  - andrewzah 6y ago
    > at least under Federal Aviation Administration rules, this maneuver was very illegal. > § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: (b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft. > New York Times reporter Thomas Gibbons-Neff said that one of the Black Hawks had flown so low that it broke a large branch off a tree with its rotor wash, which fell, but thankfully didn't injure anyone on the ground below.
    - salawat 6y ago
      So who do you think is going to prosecute that? For that matter, how do you plan to get passed power of the Pardon the President wields? The Senate abdicated their responsibility and chance to hold Trump accountable. This is the outcome. I don't like the looks of either side of this bloody conflict.
      - salawat 6y ago
        Look, I want to be clear. I think the Democrats had a case, but didn't pick their issues correctly at the impeachment. I also think the Republicans completely missed the point that their candidate had totally shattered pretty much every historical bound of decency in terms of responsible, dignified behavior as expected of a President. If that vote had been much closer, we might see a bit more restraint coming from the President's office right now. That didn't happen. I just want to be clear that there is nothing that makes me more nervous than a President who is shown no sign of being second guessed by the Legislature, especially during a crisis. It wouldn't even matter if roles were reversed and it were Hillary in the White House with Democrats in control of the Senate. I'd still be calling them out. It is so easy to get carried away by the reins of power. Most people do not realize just how well equipped the Government is to go full authoritarian if it came down to it. The only thing that has kept that from happening has been our value system doing a fairly decent job of keeping that tendency in check. Or at least it seemed to be prior to 2001.
- mysticpipuo 6y ago
  What a sad day for hacker news when the parent post is the top post and this is a comment so far fetched in reality... The Threatened use of military is not new. It was deployed during the riots in the 90s Did you allude to illegal immigrants who broke into the country and was put in jail until they are processed as “families in cages”? The use of police and national guards has always been used by every country to deal with rioters and looters. I still don’t see any examples of fascism.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  The emergencies are all in Democrat run cities, where there's complete anarchy. Businesses are being smashed in, apartments are being burn to the ground. A world war 2 memorial was defaced. A church was burned. The Lincoln memorial was defaced. Macy's, the host of the Thanksgiving parade, has been completely raided and destroyed in NYC. Hundreds of Businesses were destroyed in Minneapolis, many who serve minority neighborhoods, provide jobs and essential services, completely wrecked. By my count 20+ cities have experienced intense destruction in the last 72 hours. I'm sorry but the cop who supposedly caused this all has already been arrested and transferred to maximum security prison where he awaits murder charges. If that's not enough for you, then you don't give a damn about justice. Meanwhile you cannot let domestic terror reign. That is not justice. That's chaos.
  - pm90 6y ago
    Don't distract from what's happening my friend. The American President had absolutely no need to let loose the military on peaceful protestors as he did today, simply to get a photo op in front of a church. The majority of the protests across the country have been peaceful, with a minority engaging in rioting and looting. If that's what you choose to focus on, then you don't give a damn about justice.
    - chrisco255 6y ago
      Yes I choose to focus on that. It's destroying the fabric of these cities. It will cost these cities decades to come back, if ever, from the decimation. On the other side of this is poverty, ruin, and gang violence. That's what happens when you burn the core of your city down. I also see hateful graffiti sprayed all over my city about cops, despite the fact that the vast majority of them are peaceful and lawful and mean well for their communities. That seems to be lost on people as mob mentality has taken over.
      - pm90 6y ago
        I'm really sorry that your precious neighborhood has been defaced by graffiti. Its certainly as serious as the police systematically killing the people of non-white communities. > It's destroying the fabric of these cities. It will cost these cities decades to come back, if ever, from the decimation. On the other side of this is poverty, ruin, and gang violence. There is absolutely no evidence of anything close to that level of destruction of property. The majority of protests have been peaceful. And you seem to have no idea about what causes poverty, ruin and gang violence (hint: its not the destruction of Macy's stores).
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  > The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? When people feel that their security is threatened, they welcome fascism with open arms. Large numbers of Americans are going to cheer this on.
  - uniqueid 6y ago
    It sure seems like much of the nonsense sweeping the world is rooted in the technical design on the web. The internet we have punishes educated, honest, kind, good actors. The internet we have rewards ignorant, dishonest, malevolent, connivers. It's hard for the average person to reason about political issues when trolls and grifters and morons monopolize the public discourse.
- oyra 6y ago
  > to terrorize groups of peaceful Citizen protesters Peaceful?! Wow... > The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? What are you listening/smoking, dude? Fascism is shown by liberals (aka socialists/communists) who are trying to get as much power over people they can manage (this is classic definition of fascims, btw); or 'antifa' movement who exactly resembles Hitler's brown-shirts. It was well orchestrated attempt to enter White House premises by f*king peaceful protesters. In other cities there are some peaceful protests daytime that turns riot come night, mostly by low life scam who couldn't care less about justice.
lostmsu 6y ago
D.C.
klyrs 6y ago
> The UH-72 in this instance has red crosses on white square backgrounds on its door and under the fuselage This is absurd. Is that not a violation of Geneva conventions? https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule59 https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul...
somebrody 6y ago
I know from another thread about how the police use indiscriminate violence instead of de-escalation that this is totally ok with about half the people here. That half can go fuck themselves
- SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
  EDIT: Can someone not possibly support peaceful protests and the police shutting down riots/looters?
  - somebrody 6y ago
    Go fuck yourself
    - dang 6y ago
      We've banned this account for repeatedly violating HN's guidelines. You simply can't do this on this site, no matter how right you are or feel you are, and you've done it repeatedly already. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
  - dang 6y ago
    We've banned this account for repeatedly violating HN's guidelines. Please stop creating accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
    - SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
      Emailed. No answer. Now shadowbanned... seriously?
      - 6y ago
hello98765 6y ago
Nyc
baddox 6y ago
With a Red Cross. You’d think that wouldn’t be allowed, but who out there is enforcing what things are supposed to be allowed?
- geofft 6y ago
  How often do we think they've done that in other countries?
  - baddox 6y ago
    Who is “we” or “they?” I’ve certainly never done it. It has been terrible every time someone has done it.
    - geofft 6y ago
      We, the people in this discussion; they, the US military.
ReticentVole 6y ago
Forcing/encouraging the populace to wear masks, thus anonymising them, at the same time that many of them have lost their jobs and are unable to enjoy a social life, may not have been a good idea...
- somebrody 6y ago
  How do you feel about cops murdering black people? Was that a good idea?
  - ReticentVole 6y ago
    There was a struggle to get George Floyd out of his car, and again into a police vehicle. Bodycam footage from the police, or a statement from them, has not been provided. We don't have the full facts. We know that George Floyd was a repeat criminal, with a record of armed violence, who was being arrested for another criminal act. Having a knee on his neck so long? Police incompetence. You know what else is police incompetence, by the same police force? The death of Justine Damond: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond Killed by a Minnesota police officer fast-tracked through cadet training for diversity reasons. Where were the protests for her? Why is it just regular police error when a white Australian woman dies in the USA, after having done nothing, but a huge injustice and evidence of massive inequality when a man with a history of violence, in the process of resisting arrest, is killed by the same incompetent police force?
    - pm90 6y ago
      Because there is no systemic pattern of cops killing Australian women, over and over and over and over again and not being charged at all. The police officer responsible was immediately fired and charged with murder, of which he was convicted [0]. Justice was served, what would people protest for? Compare that to Floyd, where it took sustained protests to get the main perpetrator arrested. When something terrible happens once, it is sad. When it happens over and over again, its not "bad apples" but a systemic problem that needs to be fixed. The protests are about similar incidents (cops killing black Americans) happening throughout the country. The people who protest see that reality and are moved enough to get out there and do something, anything in the face of that injustice. The basic governing principles of the criminal justice system in the US is that the punishment should fit the crime. Regardless of however flawed human being George Floyd was, he did not deserve to die as he did. Many, many Black Americans did not deserve to die. Please educate yourself if you're genuinely interested in learning about the reason why so much of the country feels the need to come out and protest during a deadly pandemic. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond#Trial_and_conviction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond#Tri...
newyankee 6y ago
Well i guess in a few days we might see some new generation drone and autonomous weapons too which were under wraps so far.
- bigiain 6y ago
  I wonder how long until the first protestor flies a DJI drone into a military helicopter turbine intake?
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    That would be interesting, considering the feeble drone would have to fly against the massive rotor downwash/draft to get near them. Could also be they have some sort of wire mesh against foreign object intake installed...
    - tomjen3 6y ago
      Then you would only need the drone to go over the helicopter, then let physics find the way in.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        How fast does the rotor spin? To shred, or not to shred, that's the question here...
option 6y ago
I wonder at what point the military will stop obeying criminal orders. Looking at the military leadership now, don’t fail us like certain police did.
- NonEUCitizen 6y ago
  They obeyed orders and participated in the illegal war in Iraq.
- riffraff 6y ago
  I would not bet on that happening before way way too late. Think if Guantanamo. And anyway there's still a lot of space between this and the army shooting on the crowd (which happened in many places in the world historically).
  - totesraunch 6y ago
    Including the United States at Kent State. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
- pm90 6y ago
  Anyone seriously considering this is sorely mistaken. When dictators consolidate their power, they purge their administration of anyone who does not pledge their supreme loyalty to them. The principled ones of course quit immediately, but without a doubt there will be significant number of people that remain. They are only human, and they have to deal with exactly the same problem that anyone else quitting their job faces in America today. Their minds will rationalize the actions, the Dictator will provide ample bogeymen as targets of hatred. And even if they DO disobey an order, an American where the military no longer obeys the Civilian Administration... however terrible that might be, would be a dangerous line to cross. All bets are off at that point: the American military is the largest, best equipped fighting force the world has ever seen. Whoever commands it instantly commands immeasurable amount of power.
  - option 6y ago
japhyr 6y ago
Anyone who's been around large helicopters knows exactly how much this is about a show of force, and has nothing to do with keeping the peace. The last thing you do with a large helicopter if you care about people's safety is hover over them. This is why I did not enjoy the "health care flyovers" recently. Normally when we have flyovers, it's meant to say "look at all the might we have to use in protecting you". Even that's not particularly appealing, knowing that that might is going to be turned against most likely undeserving people. But the recent flyovers really felt like "look what we could be using against you". And now here we are.
- apexalpha 6y ago
  Reminds me of the protests in Egypt. Except in Egypt the military did it to show that were with the protestors and getting ready to swap the dictator out.
- rolph 6y ago
  if they hover too low and someone tethers them down theyll know it then hell breaks loose
cinquemb 6y ago
GWOT brought back home… how unexpected…
jondwillis 6y ago
Leaked audio of Trump call with Secretary of Defense essentially ordering use of force and control, using the term war in reference to protest/LE/Natl Guard relations, 3rd link down on https://linktr.ee/jonalmostfree https://linktr.ee/jonalmostfree
- SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
  I just finished it, what is the part exactly is the problem? What is the timestamp of the offensive part? Considering that it was a private administration call they didn’t intend to be public, I’m not sure “you gotta arrest these people” over and over is wrong. I must have missed it in my first pass, can you help me out with a timestamp?
MattGaiser 6y ago
I'm not an American but a Canadian who has Canadian friends down there. People who would never have considered buying guns up here are purchase one per family member down there because of the riots. You have a crazy country. Stay safe.
- SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
  Have you not seen Montreal protests? Police suiting up in the same gear and getting ready to fire the same less lethal rounds in to crowds.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    My friends are scared of the protestors, not the police. Their fear is that the police will not show up if overwhelmed. Violence in Montreal seems well contained for now.
iron0013 6y ago
This post was at #2 on the front page, and then it disappeared completely.
- augustt 6y ago
  Because god forbid this country's descent into fascism is discussed instead of the newest cli tool to be rewritten in rust.
maxden 6y ago
I can only imagine this will increase the number of people carrying lasers now.
usrusr 6y ago
This can get very ugly when the personnel assigned starts wondering if this is really what they signed up for.
Trecken 6y ago
This has gone on long enough. Send the troops in to haul every last one of them off. Fix bayonets so that any who resist can be rapidly dealt with.
Whatarethese 6y ago
Laser pointers are about to be bought out everywhere if this keeps going around the states. What is honestly the point of this? Show of force? Cool. Lots of people look scared based on these videos. Not.
- inawarminister 6y ago
  If you use a laser pointer on an airborne vehicles cockpits, you are attacking them lethally and must expect lethal reaction also. Please DO NOT do this.
  - viklove 6y ago
    This seems like a fun game: > If you perform low-altitude flyovers while citizens exercise their right to assembly, you are attacking them lethally and must expect lethal reaction also. Please DO NOT do this.
  - GurnBlandston 6y ago
    Don't justify an exaggerated response like this. A laser pointer is not lethal. There is no comparison between a laser pointer and the armaments on a military helicopter.
    - bmn__ 6y ago
      You underestimate the risk. Targetting a laser into the cockpit has a non-negligible chance of dazzling/blinding the pilots, possibly with lethal outcome. The light beam will refract and scatter through the glass/transparent plastic.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  Visors block them, that said even if they didn’t blinding a helicopter pilot hovering over a crowd is probably not a good idea.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
threatofrain 6y ago
https://soundcloud.com/the-daily-beast-politics/trump-audio https://soundcloud.com/the-daily-beast-politics/trump-audio President Trump on severity of response to protests.

pm90 6y ago

The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? It started with violating the rights of non-citizens by throwing them and their families in cages. Its building on centuries of black oppression and a nationwide corps of officers lead to believe certain class of Americans to be less than human. Today, the president used American Military-lite in a completely unnecessary display of machismo, to terrorize groups of peaceful Citizen protesters and continues to do so by semi-wartime methods. The CBP has offered its help in brutalizing another class of people; these are the same group of people who have been let loose on border communities with little repercussions for their actions. Unchecked, the fascism will grow until there is nothing left to contain it. Its clear to the present occupant of the White House that winning fairly is not possible. Using emergencies as a pretext for grabbing on to power is an entirely predicable playbook, and yet Americans seem utterly powerless to stop what they know in their hearts is going to happen.

Trasmatta 6y ago
We are listening, but honestly I don't know that to do. I feel helpless and scared (which is what they want, of course).
- ironman1478 6y ago
  I feel the same way. What exactly can we do other than vote? Protesting doesn't seem to actually work (in America anymore at least).
  - jondwillis 6y ago
    Have you tried prolonged, painful protest? That’s what I am preparing myself to do, mind, body, and soul. Honesty feeling hopeful for the first time in awhile, bullish on protest and I think that tech can be leveraged in a significant way
    - ironman1478 6y ago
      Maybe you are right and I won't pooh-pooh anybody who participates, but what about when Freddie Grey was killed? Similar thing happened in 2015, protests around the country and that didn't seem to accomplish anything. The protests now are much larger it seems this time, but unless they go on for a while (which I hope they do), I just don't see anything changing. It seems like law enforcement isn't going to have a sudden change of heart because people are telling them they are wrong and local politicians don't seem to be effective at enacting change in their police departments.
  - baddox 6y ago
    The American people made their preferences clear in the 2016 election. That clearly does not work.
- gre 6y ago
  General strike.
  - jondwillis 6y ago
    Default on debts, boycotts, deplatforming and platform advantages that could be leveraged. Lots of ways to cause pain where it hurts most...
    - SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
      > Have you tried prolonged, painful protest? That’s what I am preparing myself to do, mind, body, and soul. Honesty feeling hopeful for the first time in awhile, bullish on protest and I think that tech can be leveraged in a significant way Looking over your posts in this thread, you seem eager to deploy censorship and violence so long as it’s against people you disagree with. Surely that could never turn around on you! Right? Think past your nose on this, think of there were even “sides” here and Obama was president and some far right people were causing riots, would you really want them to use censorship via “platform advantages” and violence of painful protest? Can you imagine no scenario where you aren’t on the side of the majority?
      - jondwillis 6y ago
        For anyone else looking for my previous posts promoting violence and censorship, you won’t find them. troll
almost_usual 6y ago
Authoritarianism is on the rise and with the US, China, and Russia becoming ever more powerful I’m having a hard time imagining a future without it. It’s depressing.
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
Are the people who didn't vote four years ago going to the polls this time? Complacency is no less of a problem.
mydongle 6y ago
Can't listen over the sound of businesses being burned down and innocent people crying out of terror.
- hedora 6y ago
  The looters and violent people at these events are distinct groups from the protesters. There are many groups, but the most effective one is a right wing movement that is trying to start a second civil war by touching off race riots. Apparently international anarchists, and foreign governments’ misinformation campaigns are also making strong showings. Trump claims Antifa is too (though he has not provided any evidence to back that up). Some of the right wingers have been caught with bombs, etc. Some have been firing weapons into crowds in an attempt to get police to shoot innocent people (and at least one person in Louisville was killed this way) All of the major US news (except fox) networks are covering this continuously and showing pictures of the perpetrators, etc. If you don’t believe their reporters, they also usually live stream the protests from the ground and the sky, so you can see for yourself. They covered a half dozen cities tonight.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- whymauri 6y ago
  I don't understand this. The warning signs of the current administration's fascist-adjacent policies have been here for four years. Please do not pretend that it's now that Americans cannot heed those signs due to protests, especially when the protests are partially in response to the current administration.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    More that many Americans will now see fascism as providing a certain method of protection. Plenty of authoritarians are popularly elected based on some threat.
    - whymauri 6y ago
nodesocket 6y ago
I am certain to be in the minority, but how is this much different than seeing humvee and military armored police vehicles rolling down streets as of late? The helicopters were performing recon and visuals, again how is that different than police helicopters in LA that follow high speed chases? This particular helicopter story feels overblown and out of touch.
- andrewzah 6y ago
  > at least under Federal Aviation Administration rules, this maneuver was very illegal. > § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: (b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft. > New York Times reporter Thomas Gibbons-Neff said that one of the Black Hawks had flown so low that it broke a large branch off a tree with its rotor wash, which fell, but thankfully didn't injure anyone on the ground below.
  - salawat 6y ago
    So who do you think is going to prosecute that? For that matter, how do you plan to get passed power of the Pardon the President wields? The Senate abdicated their responsibility and chance to hold Trump accountable. This is the outcome. I don't like the looks of either side of this bloody conflict.
    - salawat 6y ago
      Look, I want to be clear. I think the Democrats had a case, but didn't pick their issues correctly at the impeachment. I also think the Republicans completely missed the point that their candidate had totally shattered pretty much every historical bound of decency in terms of responsible, dignified behavior as expected of a President. If that vote had been much closer, we might see a bit more restraint coming from the President's office right now. That didn't happen. I just want to be clear that there is nothing that makes me more nervous than a President who is shown no sign of being second guessed by the Legislature, especially during a crisis. It wouldn't even matter if roles were reversed and it were Hillary in the White House with Democrats in control of the Senate. I'd still be calling them out. It is so easy to get carried away by the reins of power. Most people do not realize just how well equipped the Government is to go full authoritarian if it came down to it. The only thing that has kept that from happening has been our value system doing a fairly decent job of keeping that tendency in check. Or at least it seemed to be prior to 2001.
mysticpipuo 6y ago
What a sad day for hacker news when the parent post is the top post and this is a comment so far fetched in reality... The Threatened use of military is not new. It was deployed during the riots in the 90s Did you allude to illegal immigrants who broke into the country and was put in jail until they are processed as “families in cages”? The use of police and national guards has always been used by every country to deal with rioters and looters. I still don’t see any examples of fascism.
chrisco255 6y ago
The emergencies are all in Democrat run cities, where there's complete anarchy. Businesses are being smashed in, apartments are being burn to the ground. A world war 2 memorial was defaced. A church was burned. The Lincoln memorial was defaced. Macy's, the host of the Thanksgiving parade, has been completely raided and destroyed in NYC. Hundreds of Businesses were destroyed in Minneapolis, many who serve minority neighborhoods, provide jobs and essential services, completely wrecked. By my count 20+ cities have experienced intense destruction in the last 72 hours. I'm sorry but the cop who supposedly caused this all has already been arrested and transferred to maximum security prison where he awaits murder charges. If that's not enough for you, then you don't give a damn about justice. Meanwhile you cannot let domestic terror reign. That is not justice. That's chaos.
- pm90 6y ago
  Don't distract from what's happening my friend. The American President had absolutely no need to let loose the military on peaceful protestors as he did today, simply to get a photo op in front of a church. The majority of the protests across the country have been peaceful, with a minority engaging in rioting and looting. If that's what you choose to focus on, then you don't give a damn about justice.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    Yes I choose to focus on that. It's destroying the fabric of these cities. It will cost these cities decades to come back, if ever, from the decimation. On the other side of this is poverty, ruin, and gang violence. That's what happens when you burn the core of your city down. I also see hateful graffiti sprayed all over my city about cops, despite the fact that the vast majority of them are peaceful and lawful and mean well for their communities. That seems to be lost on people as mob mentality has taken over.
    - pm90 6y ago
      I'm really sorry that your precious neighborhood has been defaced by graffiti. Its certainly as serious as the police systematically killing the people of non-white communities. > It's destroying the fabric of these cities. It will cost these cities decades to come back, if ever, from the decimation. On the other side of this is poverty, ruin, and gang violence. There is absolutely no evidence of anything close to that level of destruction of property. The majority of protests have been peaceful. And you seem to have no idea about what causes poverty, ruin and gang violence (hint: its not the destruction of Macy's stores).
MattGaiser 6y ago
> The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? When people feel that their security is threatened, they welcome fascism with open arms. Large numbers of Americans are going to cheer this on.
- uniqueid 6y ago
  It sure seems like much of the nonsense sweeping the world is rooted in the technical design on the web. The internet we have punishes educated, honest, kind, good actors. The internet we have rewards ignorant, dishonest, malevolent, connivers. It's hard for the average person to reason about political issues when trolls and grifters and morons monopolize the public discourse.
oyra 6y ago
> to terrorize groups of peaceful Citizen protesters Peaceful?! Wow... > The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening? What are you listening/smoking, dude? Fascism is shown by liberals (aka socialists/communists) who are trying to get as much power over people they can manage (this is classic definition of fascims, btw); or 'antifa' movement who exactly resembles Hitler's brown-shirts. It was well orchestrated attempt to enter White House premises by f*king peaceful protesters. In other cities there are some peaceful protests daytime that turns riot come night, mostly by low life scam who couldn't care less about justice.

lostmsu 6y ago

D.C.

klyrs 6y ago

> The UH-72 in this instance has red crosses on white square backgrounds on its door and under the fuselage This is absurd. Is that not a violation of Geneva conventions? https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule59 https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul...

somebrody 6y ago

I know from another thread about how the police use indiscriminate violence instead of de-escalation that this is totally ok with about half the people here. That half can go fuck themselves

SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
EDIT: Can someone not possibly support peaceful protests and the police shutting down riots/looters?
- somebrody 6y ago
  Go fuck yourself
  - dang 6y ago
    We've banned this account for repeatedly violating HN's guidelines. You simply can't do this on this site, no matter how right you are or feel you are, and you've done it repeatedly already. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
- dang 6y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly violating HN's guidelines. Please stop creating accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
  - SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
    Emailed. No answer. Now shadowbanned... seriously?
    - 6y ago

hello98765 6y ago

Nyc

baddox 6y ago

With a Red Cross. You’d think that wouldn’t be allowed, but who out there is enforcing what things are supposed to be allowed?

geofft 6y ago
How often do we think they've done that in other countries?
- baddox 6y ago
  Who is “we” or “they?” I’ve certainly never done it. It has been terrible every time someone has done it.
  - geofft 6y ago
    We, the people in this discussion; they, the US military.

ReticentVole 6y ago

Forcing/encouraging the populace to wear masks, thus anonymising them, at the same time that many of them have lost their jobs and are unable to enjoy a social life, may not have been a good idea...

somebrody 6y ago
How do you feel about cops murdering black people? Was that a good idea?
- ReticentVole 6y ago
  There was a struggle to get George Floyd out of his car, and again into a police vehicle. Bodycam footage from the police, or a statement from them, has not been provided. We don't have the full facts. We know that George Floyd was a repeat criminal, with a record of armed violence, who was being arrested for another criminal act. Having a knee on his neck so long? Police incompetence. You know what else is police incompetence, by the same police force? The death of Justine Damond: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond Killed by a Minnesota police officer fast-tracked through cadet training for diversity reasons. Where were the protests for her? Why is it just regular police error when a white Australian woman dies in the USA, after having done nothing, but a huge injustice and evidence of massive inequality when a man with a history of violence, in the process of resisting arrest, is killed by the same incompetent police force?
  - pm90 6y ago
    Because there is no systemic pattern of cops killing Australian women, over and over and over and over again and not being charged at all. The police officer responsible was immediately fired and charged with murder, of which he was convicted [0]. Justice was served, what would people protest for? Compare that to Floyd, where it took sustained protests to get the main perpetrator arrested. When something terrible happens once, it is sad. When it happens over and over again, its not "bad apples" but a systemic problem that needs to be fixed. The protests are about similar incidents (cops killing black Americans) happening throughout the country. The people who protest see that reality and are moved enough to get out there and do something, anything in the face of that injustice. The basic governing principles of the criminal justice system in the US is that the punishment should fit the crime. Regardless of however flawed human being George Floyd was, he did not deserve to die as he did. Many, many Black Americans did not deserve to die. Please educate yourself if you're genuinely interested in learning about the reason why so much of the country feels the need to come out and protest during a deadly pandemic. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond#Trial_and_conviction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond#Tri...

newyankee 6y ago

Well i guess in a few days we might see some new generation drone and autonomous weapons too which were under wraps so far.

bigiain 6y ago
I wonder how long until the first protestor flies a DJI drone into a military helicopter turbine intake?
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  That would be interesting, considering the feeble drone would have to fly against the massive rotor downwash/draft to get near them. Could also be they have some sort of wire mesh against foreign object intake installed...
  - tomjen3 6y ago
    Then you would only need the drone to go over the helicopter, then let physics find the way in.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      How fast does the rotor spin? To shred, or not to shred, that's the question here...

option 6y ago

I wonder at what point the military will stop obeying criminal orders. Looking at the military leadership now, don’t fail us like certain police did.

NonEUCitizen 6y ago
They obeyed orders and participated in the illegal war in Iraq.
riffraff 6y ago
I would not bet on that happening before way way too late. Think if Guantanamo. And anyway there's still a lot of space between this and the army shooting on the crowd (which happened in many places in the world historically).
- totesraunch 6y ago
  Including the United States at Kent State. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
pm90 6y ago
Anyone seriously considering this is sorely mistaken. When dictators consolidate their power, they purge their administration of anyone who does not pledge their supreme loyalty to them. The principled ones of course quit immediately, but without a doubt there will be significant number of people that remain. They are only human, and they have to deal with exactly the same problem that anyone else quitting their job faces in America today. Their minds will rationalize the actions, the Dictator will provide ample bogeymen as targets of hatred. And even if they DO disobey an order, an American where the military no longer obeys the Civilian Administration... however terrible that might be, would be a dangerous line to cross. All bets are off at that point: the American military is the largest, best equipped fighting force the world has ever seen. Whoever commands it instantly commands immeasurable amount of power.
- option 6y ago

japhyr 6y ago

Anyone who's been around large helicopters knows exactly how much this is about a show of force, and has nothing to do with keeping the peace. The last thing you do with a large helicopter if you care about people's safety is hover over them. This is why I did not enjoy the "health care flyovers" recently. Normally when we have flyovers, it's meant to say "look at all the might we have to use in protecting you". Even that's not particularly appealing, knowing that that might is going to be turned against most likely undeserving people. But the recent flyovers really felt like "look what we could be using against you". And now here we are.

apexalpha 6y ago
Reminds me of the protests in Egypt. Except in Egypt the military did it to show that were with the protestors and getting ready to swap the dictator out.
rolph 6y ago
if they hover too low and someone tethers them down theyll know it then hell breaks loose

cinquemb 6y ago

GWOT brought back home… how unexpected…

jondwillis 6y ago

Leaked audio of Trump call with Secretary of Defense essentially ordering use of force and control, using the term war in reference to protest/LE/Natl Guard relations, 3rd link down on https://linktr.ee/jonalmostfree https://linktr.ee/jonalmostfree

SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
I just finished it, what is the part exactly is the problem? What is the timestamp of the offensive part? Considering that it was a private administration call they didn’t intend to be public, I’m not sure “you gotta arrest these people” over and over is wrong. I must have missed it in my first pass, can you help me out with a timestamp?

MattGaiser 6y ago

I'm not an American but a Canadian who has Canadian friends down there. People who would never have considered buying guns up here are purchase one per family member down there because of the riots. You have a crazy country. Stay safe.

SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
Have you not seen Montreal protests? Police suiting up in the same gear and getting ready to fire the same less lethal rounds in to crowds.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  My friends are scared of the protestors, not the police. Their fear is that the police will not show up if overwhelmed. Violence in Montreal seems well contained for now.

iron0013 6y ago

This post was at #2 on the front page, and then it disappeared completely.

augustt 6y ago
Because god forbid this country's descent into fascism is discussed instead of the newest cli tool to be rewritten in rust.

maxden 6y ago

I can only imagine this will increase the number of people carrying lasers now.

usrusr 6y ago

This can get very ugly when the personnel assigned starts wondering if this is really what they signed up for.

Trecken 6y ago

This has gone on long enough. Send the troops in to haul every last one of them off. Fix bayonets so that any who resist can be rapidly dealt with.

Whatarethese 6y ago

Laser pointers are about to be bought out everywhere if this keeps going around the states. What is honestly the point of this? Show of force? Cool. Lots of people look scared based on these videos. Not.

inawarminister 6y ago
If you use a laser pointer on an airborne vehicles cockpits, you are attacking them lethally and must expect lethal reaction also. Please DO NOT do this.
- viklove 6y ago
  This seems like a fun game: > If you perform low-altitude flyovers while citizens exercise their right to assembly, you are attacking them lethally and must expect lethal reaction also. Please DO NOT do this.
- GurnBlandston 6y ago
  Don't justify an exaggerated response like this. A laser pointer is not lethal. There is no comparison between a laser pointer and the armaments on a military helicopter.
  - bmn__ 6y ago
    You underestimate the risk. Targetting a laser into the cockpit has a non-negligible chance of dazzling/blinding the pilots, possibly with lethal outcome. The light beam will refract and scatter through the glass/transparent plastic.
dogma1138 6y ago
Visors block them, that said even if they didn’t blinding a helicopter pilot hovering over a crowd is probably not a good idea.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

threatofrain 6y ago

https://soundcloud.com/the-daily-beast-politics/trump-audio https://soundcloud.com/the-daily-beast-politics/trump-audio President Trump on severity of response to protests.