7 ms·

This is more interesting than all the other layoff stories in that they're axing 1,400 California jobs but adding 2,000 in lower-cost locations like Dallas, Pit

This is more interesting than all the other layoff stories in that they're axing 1,400 California jobs but adding 2,000 in lower-cost locations like Dallas, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Minneapolis and Austin. It's like offshoring -- but off-Californiaing.

whywhywhywhy 6y ago
>It's like offshoring -- but off-Californiaing. This is what "Going full remote" post-covid is going to look like for a lot of companies.
- nvr219 6y ago
  Good!
Spooky23 6y ago
It makes sense. If you're not looking for super high-end tech talent, there is no magical advantage to paying California salaries so that people can spend every dime on housing. I skeptical of most of the tech stuff too -- fewer tech roles require the skillsets/social connections only found a big tech hub than in the past. For many years, IBM was able to run successful tech operations in places like Minneapolis, Austin, Binghamton NY, Hudson Valley NY, North Carolina, Tampa, etc. The median home price is Pittsburgh is literally 90% less than many California locales. Even with a 40% pay cut, in many professions moving to one of these places will be a neutral in terms of money and probably a positive impact on the employee's quality of life.
- halflings 6y ago
  > The median home price is Pittsburgh is literally 90% less than many California locales. Can you give some data around this? 90% seems like a hyperbole. Or are you comparing the most expensive zipcode in the bay area (e.g Atherton) with the cheapest in Pittsburgh?
  - dodo6502 6y ago
    My friends just moved to Pittsburgh and bought a great house for 108k. This is literally 95% less than a comparable home in Silicon Valley.
    - thorwasdfasdf 6y ago
      and he probably got a backyard with it too. In CA, you don't even get that. Why pay 1 to 2 million dollars in CA for a house when you can't even have a backyard?
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    I didn't do a study of real estate valuation. I googled "real estate palo alto" and "real estate pittsburgh" and grabbed the number from the first Google results. (realtor.com) I can tell you that I live in a small northeastern city, and a 3 or 4 bedroom mid 20th century, single family house is around $130/sqft in a nice neighborhood. In the burbs, it's about $150/sqft. When your mortgage+taxes is <$15k/year, you don't need to make crazy salaries. I don't know bay area real estate, so looking at Gilroy, CA, which would be a hella commute to SFO, you're looking at $400-450/sqft for 3/4br single family. That's alot of cash.
  - david38 6y ago
    I moved to Cali from Illinois. These numbers look correct. A similar, but smaller property was MORE than 10x greater in California.
onemoresoop 6y ago
I wonder if they gave the employees the option to relocate with out of calofornia salary. Not sure if that’s legal but it would have been worth giving them an option, some might as well take it, everything’s too expensive in cali, one cannot easily start a family there
- driverdan 6y ago
  > Not sure if that’s legal Why wouldn't it be legal?
- paulcole 6y ago
  You don't need to wonder. It literally says that in the article. Even above the paywall.
- mc32 6y ago
  They gave them the option to stay on if they relocate. Doesn’t say they keep their CA salary though. >“ Most of the layoffs will take place in September and those affected will have the opportunity to relocate and stay with the San Francisco-based company.”
  - subsaharancoder 6y ago
    What are the implications of this in terms of taxes? My understanding is that the CFTB https://www.ftb.ca.gov/ https://www.ftb.ca.gov/ will continue to tax you as a CA resident as long as your employer is based in CA. The laundry list for determining residency is long and in many cases you would end up paying taxes even if you don't live in CA. https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2019/10/22/now-california-can-assess-taxes-no-matter-where-you-livereally/#4adf59fa3e7f https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2019/10/22/now-calif... https://moskowitzllp.com/leaving-california-and-the-franchise-tax-board-behind-a-little-qa-on-california-exit-planning/ https://moskowitzllp.com/leaving-california-and-the-franchis...
  - klenwell 6y ago
    The two Stitch Fix stylists that I've known both worked remotely and I got the impression that most of them did. Is that not true? If it is true, how do you relocate a remote worker?
fuckyah 6y ago
I guess the CA/SF exodus is happening...
hinkley 6y ago
I was curious about that. They keep popping up with job openings lately and I was t sure what’s going on there.

whywhywhywhy 6y ago

>It's like offshoring -- but off-Californiaing. This is what "Going full remote" post-covid is going to look like for a lot of companies.

nvr219 6y ago
Good!

Spooky23 6y ago

It makes sense. If you're not looking for super high-end tech talent, there is no magical advantage to paying California salaries so that people can spend every dime on housing. I skeptical of most of the tech stuff too -- fewer tech roles require the skillsets/social connections only found a big tech hub than in the past. For many years, IBM was able to run successful tech operations in places like Minneapolis, Austin, Binghamton NY, Hudson Valley NY, North Carolina, Tampa, etc. The median home price is Pittsburgh is literally 90% less than many California locales. Even with a 40% pay cut, in many professions moving to one of these places will be a neutral in terms of money and probably a positive impact on the employee's quality of life.

halflings 6y ago
> The median home price is Pittsburgh is literally 90% less than many California locales. Can you give some data around this? 90% seems like a hyperbole. Or are you comparing the most expensive zipcode in the bay area (e.g Atherton) with the cheapest in Pittsburgh?
- dodo6502 6y ago
  My friends just moved to Pittsburgh and bought a great house for 108k. This is literally 95% less than a comparable home in Silicon Valley.
  - thorwasdfasdf 6y ago
    and he probably got a backyard with it too. In CA, you don't even get that. Why pay 1 to 2 million dollars in CA for a house when you can't even have a backyard?
- Spooky23 6y ago
  I didn't do a study of real estate valuation. I googled "real estate palo alto" and "real estate pittsburgh" and grabbed the number from the first Google results. (realtor.com) I can tell you that I live in a small northeastern city, and a 3 or 4 bedroom mid 20th century, single family house is around $130/sqft in a nice neighborhood. In the burbs, it's about $150/sqft. When your mortgage+taxes is <$15k/year, you don't need to make crazy salaries. I don't know bay area real estate, so looking at Gilroy, CA, which would be a hella commute to SFO, you're looking at $400-450/sqft for 3/4br single family. That's alot of cash.
- david38 6y ago
  I moved to Cali from Illinois. These numbers look correct. A similar, but smaller property was MORE than 10x greater in California.

onemoresoop 6y ago

I wonder if they gave the employees the option to relocate with out of calofornia salary. Not sure if that’s legal but it would have been worth giving them an option, some might as well take it, everything’s too expensive in cali, one cannot easily start a family there

driverdan 6y ago
> Not sure if that’s legal Why wouldn't it be legal?
paulcole 6y ago
You don't need to wonder. It literally says that in the article. Even above the paywall.
mc32 6y ago
They gave them the option to stay on if they relocate. Doesn’t say they keep their CA salary though. >“ Most of the layoffs will take place in September and those affected will have the opportunity to relocate and stay with the San Francisco-based company.”
- subsaharancoder 6y ago
  What are the implications of this in terms of taxes? My understanding is that the CFTB https://www.ftb.ca.gov/ https://www.ftb.ca.gov/ will continue to tax you as a CA resident as long as your employer is based in CA. The laundry list for determining residency is long and in many cases you would end up paying taxes even if you don't live in CA. https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2019/10/22/now-california-can-assess-taxes-no-matter-where-you-livereally/#4adf59fa3e7f https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2019/10/22/now-calif... https://moskowitzllp.com/leaving-california-and-the-franchise-tax-board-behind-a-little-qa-on-california-exit-planning/ https://moskowitzllp.com/leaving-california-and-the-franchis...
- klenwell 6y ago
  The two Stitch Fix stylists that I've known both worked remotely and I got the impression that most of them did. Is that not true? If it is true, how do you relocate a remote worker?

fuckyah 6y ago

I guess the CA/SF exodus is happening...

hinkley 6y ago

I was curious about that. They keep popping up with job openings lately and I was t sure what’s going on there.