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I'm a vscode user and I do like it. I only really use it for the file navigation and color coding though. Autocomplete drives me nuts, so I turned that off comp

by thomk 6y ago

I'm a vscode user and I do like it. I only really use it for the file navigation and color coding though. Autocomplete drives me nuts, so I turned that off completely. I am a pdb fan so i drop in to that when needed. I never really considered PyCharm to be honest, it feels like overkill for me. However your allegiance sounds interesting. Can you give some reasons why you like it so much?

_coveredInBees 6y ago
Not the person you replied to, but I love vscode from when I did a bunch of React + JS stuff a few years back. I also do a ton of software development and machine learning work in Python now and have never managed to move away from Pycharm even though I'd love to be able to have a good enough experience in Vscode so that I could make the switch from Pycharm (the remote development experience in vscode is really neat which is what attracts me). In no particular order, here are all the things that I love about Pycharm and that Vscode doesn't really compete on at the moment: 1. Integration of IPython shell (if you install IPython in your project venv) with Pycharm is absolutely amazing. Copy-pasting multi-line code just works. It handles all the auto-indent stuff. You have keyboard shortcuts to directly send highlighted sections of code in the editor to the shell. You can even add a plugin (Python code cell) to make the editor work like Spyder/Matlab's cell mode 2. Excellent history browser of all commands entered in the IPython shell. This is extraordinarily handy as I end up doing all my code prototyping directly in the IPython REPL, fix all the edge cases and issues interactively, and then just grab the things that work and graduate them to a script/function/class. This reduces the overall time to code things up and I end up with far less bugs. 3. The code completion/intelligence is unbelievably good. Vscode's intellisense is really really bad in comparison when it comes to Python. With Vscode, the tab completion almost always feels nonsensical with the ordering of things making no sense, and a lot of times just plain wrong things being suggested in tab completion. By contrast, Pycharm's code completion is really smart, and extremely helpful, especially when filling in method signatures, or trying to tab-complete instance attributes/methods. It is smart enough to even parse type-hinting from docstrings and provide code completion accordingly, which vscode fails at. 4. Refactoring is a lot easier. Code inspection tools are pretty powerful 5. Related to the fantastic REPL experience in Pycharm, the debugging experience is hands-down the best Python debugging experience I have found. Also, the integrated variable viewer/explorer is really really nice and makes debugging that much easier/faster 6. PEP8 linting + auto style refactoring is really good in Pycharm. I've found vscode lacking considerably in that department. Pycharm ends up catching a lot of silly mistakes that vscode doesn't (example: forgetting to have your first param be `self` for an instance method). 7. Managing your project venvs and dependencies is also much easier and more robust in Pycharm. Pycharm will alert you the moment any file utilizes imports not installed in your venv and will also highlight missing dependencies in your requirements.txt / setup.py I'm sure I'll think of more, but these are some of the top things that come to mind. It is a really fantastic product and what's crazy is that all of the above you get with the free community edition! I actually want to purchase the pro version but haven't found any need for it. I was interested in the remote-code development capabilities but unfortunately have been pretty underwhelmed by that aspect of Pycharm. Vscode seems to have a much better UX on that front imho.
- diarrhea 6y ago
  I have used both softwares but stick with VSCode for Python, simply because it is very powerful to have one great editor for all projects, as opposed to one specialized IDE for each. PyCharm is (AFAIK) monolithic in what it brings to the table, whereas VSCode is more modular. As such, some of your points are true, but not an inherit fault of VSCode, but probably of some settings/underlying tools used. Maybe these can get you a better experience: 3. Agreed with VSCode being lackluster, but switching to MS Language Server [0] has helped this a great deal (while having other downsides, like being slower). 5. VSCode also has a variable viewer/browser and an interactive shell (which cannot be IPython as of today, however [1]) 6. Disagree: I forgot what VSCode uses per default, but I switched to `black` for formatting, which works very well (` "python.formatting.provider": "black"` in settings.json). For linting, I switched to `mypy` (which also handles type hints, which is helpful), which can be set via `Python: Select Linter` (CTRL+SHIFT+P). `mypy` seems to be powerful. It definitely catches method 1st arguments not being `self`. 0: https://github.com/microsoft/python-language-server https://github.com/microsoft/python-language-server 1: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47701629/vs-code-run-ipython-in-debug-console https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47701629/vs-code-run-ipy...
  - heavenlyblue 6y ago
    You are forgetting that PyCharm is actually IDEA, which is an IDE for all languages out there.
  - _coveredInBees 6y ago
    5. They have a variable viewer, but as far as I can tell, it only works when in debugging mode? Not if you are prototyping code in a REPL, which is my workflow when developing code 99% of the time. It is also a bit limited compared to Pycharm. Vscode also does not handle multi-line interactive code nearly as well when working in the REPL in the debugger. 6. Yup, it supports linting, but my point was that Pycharm has better overall support for linting/code-intelligence in that it is better at auto-fixing things or having shortcuts to do so, without having to resort to something as extreme as `black`. It handles multi-line strings, or just general formatting of multi-line stuff perfectly. If I hit enter after `long_var_name = `, it will automatically put in a back-slash so you can continue writing a multi-line expression. I edit in both vscode and pycharm and I usually will still find useful things that the Pycharm linter catches or code-formatting things that Vscode does not (and I have tried a dew different linters though perhaps I should give mypy a shot). I raise all these as a big proponent of vscode. Nothing would make me happier than to switch to it for all my Python development work as I enjoy the UX a lot more over Pycharm in the code writing/editing side of things. But Pycharm is just superior in so many ways that improves my productivity that I have not been able to make the swap despite several attempts.

by thomk 6y ago

_coveredInBees 6y ago

Not the person you replied to, but I love vscode from when I did a bunch of React + JS stuff a few years back. I also do a ton of software development and machine learning work in Python now and have never managed to move away from Pycharm even though I'd love to be able to have a good enough experience in Vscode so that I could make the switch from Pycharm (the remote development experience in vscode is really neat which is what attracts me). In no particular order, here are all the things that I love about Pycharm and that Vscode doesn't really compete on at the moment: 1. Integration of IPython shell (if you install IPython in your project venv) with Pycharm is absolutely amazing. Copy-pasting multi-line code just works. It handles all the auto-indent stuff. You have keyboard shortcuts to directly send highlighted sections of code in the editor to the shell. You can even add a plugin (Python code cell) to make the editor work like Spyder/Matlab's cell mode 2. Excellent history browser of all commands entered in the IPython shell. This is extraordinarily handy as I end up doing all my code prototyping directly in the IPython REPL, fix all the edge cases and issues interactively, and then just grab the things that work and graduate them to a script/function/class. This reduces the overall time to code things up and I end up with far less bugs. 3. The code completion/intelligence is unbelievably good. Vscode's intellisense is really really bad in comparison when it comes to Python. With Vscode, the tab completion almost always feels nonsensical with the ordering of things making no sense, and a lot of times just plain wrong things being suggested in tab completion. By contrast, Pycharm's code completion is really smart, and extremely helpful, especially when filling in method signatures, or trying to tab-complete instance attributes/methods. It is smart enough to even parse type-hinting from docstrings and provide code completion accordingly, which vscode fails at. 4. Refactoring is a lot easier. Code inspection tools are pretty powerful 5. Related to the fantastic REPL experience in Pycharm, the debugging experience is hands-down the best Python debugging experience I have found. Also, the integrated variable viewer/explorer is really really nice and makes debugging that much easier/faster 6. PEP8 linting + auto style refactoring is really good in Pycharm. I've found vscode lacking considerably in that department. Pycharm ends up catching a lot of silly mistakes that vscode doesn't (example: forgetting to have your first param be `self` for an instance method). 7. Managing your project venvs and dependencies is also much easier and more robust in Pycharm. Pycharm will alert you the moment any file utilizes imports not installed in your venv and will also highlight missing dependencies in your requirements.txt / setup.py I'm sure I'll think of more, but these are some of the top things that come to mind. It is a really fantastic product and what's crazy is that all of the above you get with the free community edition! I actually want to purchase the pro version but haven't found any need for it. I was interested in the remote-code development capabilities but unfortunately have been pretty underwhelmed by that aspect of Pycharm. Vscode seems to have a much better UX on that front imho.

diarrhea 6y ago
I have used both softwares but stick with VSCode for Python, simply because it is very powerful to have one great editor for all projects, as opposed to one specialized IDE for each. PyCharm is (AFAIK) monolithic in what it brings to the table, whereas VSCode is more modular. As such, some of your points are true, but not an inherit fault of VSCode, but probably of some settings/underlying tools used. Maybe these can get you a better experience: 3. Agreed with VSCode being lackluster, but switching to MS Language Server [0] has helped this a great deal (while having other downsides, like being slower). 5. VSCode also has a variable viewer/browser and an interactive shell (which cannot be IPython as of today, however [1]) 6. Disagree: I forgot what VSCode uses per default, but I switched to `black` for formatting, which works very well (` "python.formatting.provider": "black"` in settings.json). For linting, I switched to `mypy` (which also handles type hints, which is helpful), which can be set via `Python: Select Linter` (CTRL+SHIFT+P). `mypy` seems to be powerful. It definitely catches method 1st arguments not being `self`. 0: https://github.com/microsoft/python-language-server https://github.com/microsoft/python-language-server 1: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47701629/vs-code-run-ipython-in-debug-console https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47701629/vs-code-run-ipy...
- heavenlyblue 6y ago
  You are forgetting that PyCharm is actually IDEA, which is an IDE for all languages out there.
- _coveredInBees 6y ago
  5. They have a variable viewer, but as far as I can tell, it only works when in debugging mode? Not if you are prototyping code in a REPL, which is my workflow when developing code 99% of the time. It is also a bit limited compared to Pycharm. Vscode also does not handle multi-line interactive code nearly as well when working in the REPL in the debugger. 6. Yup, it supports linting, but my point was that Pycharm has better overall support for linting/code-intelligence in that it is better at auto-fixing things or having shortcuts to do so, without having to resort to something as extreme as `black`. It handles multi-line strings, or just general formatting of multi-line stuff perfectly. If I hit enter after `long_var_name = `, it will automatically put in a back-slash so you can continue writing a multi-line expression. I edit in both vscode and pycharm and I usually will still find useful things that the Pycharm linter catches or code-formatting things that Vscode does not (and I have tried a dew different linters though perhaps I should give mypy a shot). I raise all these as a big proponent of vscode. Nothing would make me happier than to switch to it for all my Python development work as I enjoy the UX a lot more over Pycharm in the code writing/editing side of things. But Pycharm is just superior in so many ways that improves my productivity that I have not been able to make the swap despite several attempts.