12 ms·

This looks interesting, but one potential problem with this method is that you start treating the number of notes or the size of the graph as a success metric.

by Gatsky 6y ago

This looks interesting, but one potential problem with this method is that you start treating the number of notes or the size of the graph as a success metric. The author even notes how it is 'pleasing' to see their note graph grow in size. This could be a perverse incentive.

rhythmofrest 6y ago
I've recently got into using https://kinopio.club https://kinopio.club for noting down these kinds of interconnected thoughts, which encourages combing and refining thoughts down to the root issues. But, some may find it too minimal compared to the tools linked in the article.
marvinblum 6y ago
I had the same thought. I see these graphs more as a gimmick that look nice but don't provide much insight as soon as they grow to a certain size. The first roam research graphs I saw where completely useless. Only when you zoom in and look at an individual note the connections become clearer.
ssivark 6y ago
Yes, and what I find even more worrying about a densely connected graph is that it is not easy to extract information! Lack of connections (factorizing knowledge) is as important as noticing connections. Otherwise you'll be swimming in connections of marginal relevance (i.e. distractions). IMHO a sprinkling of connections, resulting in a relatively sparse graph is quite easy to make sense of. It's not easy to foresee where the optimum might be.
- sooheon 6y ago
  You're absolutely correct, that is the dominant hyperparameter for a tool like this. If every word was hyperlinked, it would be nonsense. The good news is we don't need to analyze and forecast what the optimum is, we just need to ride the bike and learn to balance.
kranner 6y ago
Doesn't seem that harmful, as it might increase their motivation to study a subject?
- adrianN 6y ago
  Studying a subject is not exactly the same as writing more notes about it.
  - ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
    How can you quantify showers and ideas? The hotter the shower, the more ideas?
  - kranner 6y ago
    Yes, but it's not unrelated. We don't have to measure everything objectively all the time when it comes to human performance. Sometimes rituals help indirectly or in the long run.
themodelplumber 6y ago
I don't use Zettelkasten but I have over 1000 of my own frameworks in a homebrew organization and reference system. Up to about number 900, it had a "the more the better" vibe to it. It was fun to count the files. Once I passed 900, I counted them up and then realized that the best frameworks are those that are actively maintained, and _those_ are more likely to cause churn throughout the system. Activities like reorganization and even condensation. This resulted in a reduction in the file count, but it was definitely for the better. The most perverse incentive IMO is when your system of organization, structure, and own-ideas is so good that you become addicted to it. You forget to ask others what they think, or what they're doing, because you want to experience and learn it for yourself. Don't tell me--I want to puzzle it out. But as with just about any perverse incentive, you probably learn about it as you go along, especially if the system is there to help you out in the first place. And then you fix the problem.

by Gatsky 6y ago

rhythmofrest 6y ago

I've recently got into using https://kinopio.club https://kinopio.club for noting down these kinds of interconnected thoughts, which encourages combing and refining thoughts down to the root issues. But, some may find it too minimal compared to the tools linked in the article.

marvinblum 6y ago

I had the same thought. I see these graphs more as a gimmick that look nice but don't provide much insight as soon as they grow to a certain size. The first roam research graphs I saw where completely useless. Only when you zoom in and look at an individual note the connections become clearer.

ssivark 6y ago

Yes, and what I find even more worrying about a densely connected graph is that it is not easy to extract information! Lack of connections (factorizing knowledge) is as important as noticing connections. Otherwise you'll be swimming in connections of marginal relevance (i.e. distractions). IMHO a sprinkling of connections, resulting in a relatively sparse graph is quite easy to make sense of. It's not easy to foresee where the optimum might be.

sooheon 6y ago
You're absolutely correct, that is the dominant hyperparameter for a tool like this. If every word was hyperlinked, it would be nonsense. The good news is we don't need to analyze and forecast what the optimum is, we just need to ride the bike and learn to balance.

kranner 6y ago

Doesn't seem that harmful, as it might increase their motivation to study a subject?

adrianN 6y ago
Studying a subject is not exactly the same as writing more notes about it.
- ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
  How can you quantify showers and ideas? The hotter the shower, the more ideas?
- kranner 6y ago
  Yes, but it's not unrelated. We don't have to measure everything objectively all the time when it comes to human performance. Sometimes rituals help indirectly or in the long run.

themodelplumber 6y ago

I don't use Zettelkasten but I have over 1000 of my own frameworks in a homebrew organization and reference system. Up to about number 900, it had a "the more the better" vibe to it. It was fun to count the files. Once I passed 900, I counted them up and then realized that the best frameworks are those that are actively maintained, and _those_ are more likely to cause churn throughout the system. Activities like reorganization and even condensation. This resulted in a reduction in the file count, but it was definitely for the better. The most perverse incentive IMO is when your system of organization, structure, and own-ideas is so good that you become addicted to it. You forget to ask others what they think, or what they're doing, because you want to experience and learn it for yourself. Don't tell me--I want to puzzle it out. But as with just about any perverse incentive, you probably learn about it as you go along, especially if the system is there to help you out in the first place. And then you fix the problem.