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>People on HN seem to have a cartoon villain view of police What could possibly give people that impression? https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/

>People on HN seem to have a cartoon villain view of police What could possibly give people that impression? https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/police_shoots_protestor_for_no_reason/fsg94zy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/poli...

nostromo 6y ago
"Police commanders ... WANT mayhem" That's what I responded to. I'm curious if you truly think the people that I listed want to see their home towns on fire.
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  If it increases their power and budget - sure! It's not as if they were personally affected.
- somebrody 6y ago
  > I'm curious if you truly think the people that I listed want to see their home towns on fire When given a choice to protect murderous cops or prevent a fire, they chose to protect the murderous cops. All the cops have to do is go to jail, get a court date, post bail and sit at home. Why can't a cop that murdered someone be that inconvenienced?
- aaronbrethorst 6y ago
  Most Police Don’t Live In The Cities They Serve: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-police-dont-live-in-the-cities-they-serve/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-police-dont-live-i... Chicago: 88% of police live in city St Louis: 59% Atlanta: 14% Minneapolis: 10% (white officers: 5%) Seattle: 12% Oakland: 9% Also, certainly in Minneapolis—and likely elsewhere—the police chief doesn't seem to have nearly as much control over rank and file officers as the union head does. This story gives more texture: https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/minneapolis-police-union-president-kroll-george-floyd-racism/ https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/minneapoli...
  - calvinmorrison 6y ago
    Philadelphia takes a split approach. See below: The city has mandated residency requirements for nearly all city employees since the 1950s, but police and some other public workers are exempt, The Philadelphia Tribune reports. Approximately 30 percent of Philadelphia police officers live outside of Philadelphia, according to Acting Commissioner Christine Coulter. In 2010, the police union won the right for officers who have five or more years of experience to live outside the city limits. Those terms have been in effect since 2012. Firefighters and sheriff’s deputies with five or more years of service were allowed to live outside of the city in 2016.
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    And apparently the union head has a history of complaints against him, one for wearing a "white power" patch: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/president-minneapolis-police-union-wore-white-power-patch-lawsuit-2020-5%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/president-minne...
  - dionidium 6y ago
    I'm a broken record on this, but this is yet another example demonstrating that it's basically impossible to compare cities along political borders. "Chicago" covers 234 sq/mi at the center of Chicago, whereas "Minneapolis" covers about 54 sq/mi of the center of Minneapolis, so an officer in Minneapolis and one in Chicago could be living and working in nearly identical environments -- they may, for example, both be living in an old, majority white inner-ring suburb a couple miles from Downtown and policing a majority black area they have no history in -- and the Chicago officer would be counted as living in Chicago, but the Minneapolis officer would not be counted as living in Minneapolis. Their day-to-day experiences, their relationship to the communities they serve, their physical distance from Downtown, the built environment of their own neighborhoods, the socio-economic make-up of their friends and family -- and on and on and on -- could be practically identical, but we'd count them differently in your list.
- throw_away 6y ago
  What that ellipsis elides completely changes the meaning of the quote. The pro-police forces referred to don't necessarily include the commander. If the original person was talking about the police, would they not have used the term "police forces" instead? The fans aren't the team.
ineedasername 6y ago
Painting everyone with that same brush is not constructive. There are systemic issues to be dealt with here, but that doesn't mean every cop in the system is a murderer waiting to happen.
- hanniabu 6y ago
  While true, from a game theory point of view you should be making the assumption that they are villainous. Likewise, you also need to assume that every interaction the deal with can result in them being attacked. From that position you can then start to create reasonable legislation and rules to protect both sides.

nostromo 6y ago

"Police commanders ... WANT mayhem" That's what I responded to. I'm curious if you truly think the people that I listed want to see their home towns on fire.

HarryHirsch 6y ago
If it increases their power and budget - sure! It's not as if they were personally affected.
somebrody 6y ago
> I'm curious if you truly think the people that I listed want to see their home towns on fire When given a choice to protect murderous cops or prevent a fire, they chose to protect the murderous cops. All the cops have to do is go to jail, get a court date, post bail and sit at home. Why can't a cop that murdered someone be that inconvenienced?
aaronbrethorst 6y ago
Most Police Don’t Live In The Cities They Serve: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-police-dont-live-in-the-cities-they-serve/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-police-dont-live-i... Chicago: 88% of police live in city St Louis: 59% Atlanta: 14% Minneapolis: 10% (white officers: 5%) Seattle: 12% Oakland: 9% Also, certainly in Minneapolis—and likely elsewhere—the police chief doesn't seem to have nearly as much control over rank and file officers as the union head does. This story gives more texture: https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/minneapolis-police-union-president-kroll-george-floyd-racism/ https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/minneapoli...
- calvinmorrison 6y ago
  Philadelphia takes a split approach. See below: The city has mandated residency requirements for nearly all city employees since the 1950s, but police and some other public workers are exempt, The Philadelphia Tribune reports. Approximately 30 percent of Philadelphia police officers live outside of Philadelphia, according to Acting Commissioner Christine Coulter. In 2010, the police union won the right for officers who have five or more years of experience to live outside the city limits. Those terms have been in effect since 2012. Firefighters and sheriff’s deputies with five or more years of service were allowed to live outside of the city in 2016.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  And apparently the union head has a history of complaints against him, one for wearing a "white power" patch: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/president-minneapolis-police-union-wore-white-power-patch-lawsuit-2020-5%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/president-minne...
- dionidium 6y ago
  I'm a broken record on this, but this is yet another example demonstrating that it's basically impossible to compare cities along political borders. "Chicago" covers 234 sq/mi at the center of Chicago, whereas "Minneapolis" covers about 54 sq/mi of the center of Minneapolis, so an officer in Minneapolis and one in Chicago could be living and working in nearly identical environments -- they may, for example, both be living in an old, majority white inner-ring suburb a couple miles from Downtown and policing a majority black area they have no history in -- and the Chicago officer would be counted as living in Chicago, but the Minneapolis officer would not be counted as living in Minneapolis. Their day-to-day experiences, their relationship to the communities they serve, their physical distance from Downtown, the built environment of their own neighborhoods, the socio-economic make-up of their friends and family -- and on and on and on -- could be practically identical, but we'd count them differently in your list.
throw_away 6y ago
What that ellipsis elides completely changes the meaning of the quote. The pro-police forces referred to don't necessarily include the commander. If the original person was talking about the police, would they not have used the term "police forces" instead? The fans aren't the team.

ineedasername 6y ago

Painting everyone with that same brush is not constructive. There are systemic issues to be dealt with here, but that doesn't mean every cop in the system is a murderer waiting to happen.

hanniabu 6y ago
While true, from a game theory point of view you should be making the assumption that they are villainous. Likewise, you also need to assume that every interaction the deal with can result in them being attacked. From that position you can then start to create reasonable legislation and rules to protect both sides.