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I'm seeing false accusations of Antifa starting violence all over the place. It's the right-wing's boogieman-du-jours, and likely false-flag representation at b

by jachee 6y ago

I'm seeing false accusations of Antifa starting violence all over the place. It's the right-wing's boogieman-du-jours, and likely false-flag representation at best. Edit: Downvoters– tell me why you're downvoting this? Why would Antifa purposefully take actions that would deliberately cause an armed police response to otherwise-peaceful protests? Edit 2 since I can no longer post responses: Clearly the misinformation campaign continues alive and well here on HN. Dare to defend those with less privilege and get downvoted to hell.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
p1necone 6y ago
The right uses 'Antifa' as a catch all term for anyone on the left doing anything they don't like. It's a meaningless label, but not enough people get that.
- downerending 6y ago
  There are definitely people who proudly identify as "Antifa". And a pretty good number of them are what one might generically describe as agitators (at least). If nothing else, they seem to be the douchebags defacing war memorials.
  - user982 6y ago
    "War memorials."
  - triceratops 6y ago
    > defacing war memorials. What an odd thing to do. Which memorials?
    - downerending 6y ago
      Just in the last day or two: https://taskandpurpose.com/news/world-war-ii-memorial-vandalized-protests https://taskandpurpose.com/news/world-war-ii-memorial-vandal... https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/05/25/veterans-angered-after-puerto-rican-veterans-memorial-boston-vandalized.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/05/25/veterans-ange... https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2020/05/25/War-memorial-Lawrenceville-vandalized-red-paint-pittsburgh/stories/202005250059 https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2020/05/25/Wa... https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/va-headquarters-vandalized-dc-mayor-announces-curfew-1.632014 https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/va-headquarters-vandal... https://www.wcax.com/content/news/Veterans-memorial-monument-in-Vermont-vandalized-570191101.html https://www.wcax.com/content/news/Veterans-memorial-monument... A bit older: https://www.kptv.com/news/3-arrested-vandalism-suspect-wanted-for-defacing-war-memorial-in-downtown-demonstration/article_609849b6-4aad-11ea-8fcc-37a3db6ff0a3.html https://www.kptv.com/news/3-arrested-vandalism-suspect-wante... This is just a few links--there are many more. As far as I'm concerned, this is all you need to know about Antifa. You should make up your own mind, though.
      - user982 6y ago
        1) Despite your preamble, this is the only linked instance actually from the last day: Unknown persons tagged DC structures during the protest, with the same single person spraying messages on the WWII and Lincoln memorials. 2) Memorial Day: Unknown persons damaged two stones on a monument to Puerto Rican veterans for an unknown reason. 3) Memorial Day: Unknown persons painted an obscure reference to Peruvian communists on an unrelated WWI memorial. 4) This is the same news as (1). 5) May 4: Unknown persons tagged the wrong monument for not counting soldiers of color. 6) February 8: A counterdemonstration against a KKK rally (not mentioned as such in this Fox News article) found itself aimless when the Klan was intimidated by them into late-canceling, with some becoming restless and opportunistically tagging. This is clearly a desperate search through Google News looking for any vandalism of war memorials other than the high profile reported ones you obviously had to make an effort to exclude (because you definitely didn't want to mention them now), blaming them all on "antifa" even where literally nothing is known about the vandals or their motives and concluding with "this is all you need to know."
- HPsquared 6y ago
  I guess it's the mirror image of the word "fascist" being sometimes used as a catch-all term.
brenden2 6y ago
Unfortunately the mainstream has portrayed "antifa" as some kind of covert organization acting inappropriately. They fail to point out that antifa is literally short for anti-fascist. In other words, unless you're pro-fascism, you're anti-fascist by default. It's akin to calling yourself a liberal or conservative.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  No. Antifa is more than just anti-fascist, and not everyone who is anti-fascist is Antifa. There are plenty of people who are not pro-fascist, but also are not pro-brawling-with-the-Proud-Boys-in-the-streets. In fact, the Proud Boys could use the same logic. Are you ashamed of America's heritage? No? Then you're one of the Proud Boys. The logic in either case is completely false. In fact, this is one of the standard fallacies, but I can't remember the name of it.
  - hanklazard 6y ago
    I think you’re referring to the “false dilemma” (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- dependenttypes 6y ago
  This is not how it works. Antifa has a specific meaning. Similar to how having carbon in a product is not enough to say that it is organic. Or how just publishing your source code online is not enough to make your program open source.
  - sfj 6y ago
    I wonder how long until a militant group starts calling themselves, "The Human Beings"
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
It all depends on where the violence is directed. People are protesting police killing a black civilian. Now, if Antifa were to show up, who would they attack, the protesters or the police? The police. If the alt-right showed up, who would they attack? The protesters. Well, who's getting attacked? Not the protesters. So that fits with it being Antifa rather than the alt-right... ... unless it's a false flag, or alt-right accelerationists. In that case, it could be either.
- jachee 6y ago
  Here in Pittsburgh, it was literally the latter.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    Sorry, literally the latter what? Violence aimed at protesters? Or accelerationists?
    - jachee 6y ago
      False-flag instigators, intentionally escalating in bad faith to provoke a violent response from protesters and police alike. EDIT - Watch the instigating jerk flip off the protesters who dared confront him as he triggers what would become a failure cascade of protests that had been peaceful for hours. https://reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/gtn3ps/video_of_the_anarchist_who_started_attacking_the/ https://reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/gtn3ps/video_of_the...
      - dependenttypes 6y ago
        What exactly makes you think that this person was a false-flag instigator?
        jachee 6y ago
        The fact that he flips off the protesters who try to stop him and continues instigating until the police escalate. Did you watch the video?
senectus1 6y ago
it seems like the term "antifa" is code for "militant lefties". So how does one be a part of the "Anti Fascist" movement without being "antifa" ?
- senectus1 6y ago
  wow, being down-voted to hell. It was actually a legit question... I wasn't asking because I want to be part of that movement it was more about the fact that the word is being re-defined to mean something that it was originally not meant to mean.
sfj 6y ago
> Why would Antifa purposefully take actions that would deliberately cause an armed police response to otherwise-peaceful protests? Why don't you ask who's paying them?

by jachee 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

p1necone 6y ago

The right uses 'Antifa' as a catch all term for anyone on the left doing anything they don't like. It's a meaningless label, but not enough people get that.

downerending 6y ago
There are definitely people who proudly identify as "Antifa". And a pretty good number of them are what one might generically describe as agitators (at least). If nothing else, they seem to be the douchebags defacing war memorials.
- user982 6y ago
  "War memorials."
- triceratops 6y ago
  > defacing war memorials. What an odd thing to do. Which memorials?
  - downerending 6y ago
    Just in the last day or two: https://taskandpurpose.com/news/world-war-ii-memorial-vandalized-protests https://taskandpurpose.com/news/world-war-ii-memorial-vandal... https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/05/25/veterans-angered-after-puerto-rican-veterans-memorial-boston-vandalized.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/05/25/veterans-ange... https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2020/05/25/War-memorial-Lawrenceville-vandalized-red-paint-pittsburgh/stories/202005250059 https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2020/05/25/Wa... https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/va-headquarters-vandalized-dc-mayor-announces-curfew-1.632014 https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/va-headquarters-vandal... https://www.wcax.com/content/news/Veterans-memorial-monument-in-Vermont-vandalized-570191101.html https://www.wcax.com/content/news/Veterans-memorial-monument... A bit older: https://www.kptv.com/news/3-arrested-vandalism-suspect-wanted-for-defacing-war-memorial-in-downtown-demonstration/article_609849b6-4aad-11ea-8fcc-37a3db6ff0a3.html https://www.kptv.com/news/3-arrested-vandalism-suspect-wante... This is just a few links--there are many more. As far as I'm concerned, this is all you need to know about Antifa. You should make up your own mind, though.
    - user982 6y ago
      1) Despite your preamble, this is the only linked instance actually from the last day: Unknown persons tagged DC structures during the protest, with the same single person spraying messages on the WWII and Lincoln memorials. 2) Memorial Day: Unknown persons damaged two stones on a monument to Puerto Rican veterans for an unknown reason. 3) Memorial Day: Unknown persons painted an obscure reference to Peruvian communists on an unrelated WWI memorial. 4) This is the same news as (1). 5) May 4: Unknown persons tagged the wrong monument for not counting soldiers of color. 6) February 8: A counterdemonstration against a KKK rally (not mentioned as such in this Fox News article) found itself aimless when the Klan was intimidated by them into late-canceling, with some becoming restless and opportunistically tagging. This is clearly a desperate search through Google News looking for any vandalism of war memorials other than the high profile reported ones you obviously had to make an effort to exclude (because you definitely didn't want to mention them now), blaming them all on "antifa" even where literally nothing is known about the vandals or their motives and concluding with "this is all you need to know."
HPsquared 6y ago
I guess it's the mirror image of the word "fascist" being sometimes used as a catch-all term.

brenden2 6y ago

Unfortunately the mainstream has portrayed "antifa" as some kind of covert organization acting inappropriately. They fail to point out that antifa is literally short for anti-fascist. In other words, unless you're pro-fascism, you're anti-fascist by default. It's akin to calling yourself a liberal or conservative.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
No. Antifa is more than just anti-fascist, and not everyone who is anti-fascist is Antifa. There are plenty of people who are not pro-fascist, but also are not pro-brawling-with-the-Proud-Boys-in-the-streets. In fact, the Proud Boys could use the same logic. Are you ashamed of America's heritage? No? Then you're one of the Proud Boys. The logic in either case is completely false. In fact, this is one of the standard fallacies, but I can't remember the name of it.
- hanklazard 6y ago
  I think you’re referring to the “false dilemma” (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dependenttypes 6y ago
This is not how it works. Antifa has a specific meaning. Similar to how having carbon in a product is not enough to say that it is organic. Or how just publishing your source code online is not enough to make your program open source.
- sfj 6y ago
  I wonder how long until a militant group starts calling themselves, "The Human Beings"

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

It all depends on where the violence is directed. People are protesting police killing a black civilian. Now, if Antifa were to show up, who would they attack, the protesters or the police? The police. If the alt-right showed up, who would they attack? The protesters. Well, who's getting attacked? Not the protesters. So that fits with it being Antifa rather than the alt-right... ... unless it's a false flag, or alt-right accelerationists. In that case, it could be either.

jachee 6y ago
Here in Pittsburgh, it was literally the latter.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Sorry, literally the latter what? Violence aimed at protesters? Or accelerationists?
  - jachee 6y ago
    False-flag instigators, intentionally escalating in bad faith to provoke a violent response from protesters and police alike. EDIT - Watch the instigating jerk flip off the protesters who dared confront him as he triggers what would become a failure cascade of protests that had been peaceful for hours. https://reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/gtn3ps/video_of_the_anarchist_who_started_attacking_the/ https://reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/gtn3ps/video_of_the...
    - dependenttypes 6y ago
      What exactly makes you think that this person was a false-flag instigator?
      - jachee 6y ago
        The fact that he flips off the protesters who try to stop him and continues instigating until the police escalate. Did you watch the video?

senectus1 6y ago

it seems like the term "antifa" is code for "militant lefties". So how does one be a part of the "Anti Fascist" movement without being "antifa" ?

senectus1 6y ago
wow, being down-voted to hell. It was actually a legit question... I wasn't asking because I want to be part of that movement it was more about the fact that the word is being re-defined to mean something that it was originally not meant to mean.

sfj 6y ago

> Why would Antifa purposefully take actions that would deliberately cause an armed police response to otherwise-peaceful protests? Why don't you ask who's paying them?