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Short of killing or permanently injuring people or destroying residences, I think the riots are morally justified, but they may not be practically justified. Ho

Short of killing or permanently injuring people or destroying residences, I think the riots are morally justified, but they may not be practically justified. However, even the practical non-justification is becoming uncertain at this point, considering just how extreme and long-lasting the originating problem has become, how desperately severe it is, and how it has worsened.

mc32 6y ago
I don’t see how it’s morally justified except with very narrow scope. Riots for the most part affect people who had nothing material to do with whatever the complaint is. They’re virtually bystanders. It’s like the guy who has a legit complaint against his boss and decides “the whole office is gonna pay!” How have things worsened since the MLK days? Of course there is injustice and lots we could do for fellow Americans to give people an equal opportunity at a decent life, but I can’t imagine opportunity has gotten worse? Instead of rebuilding the Middle East or cruising through North Africa the previous decade, we could have ploughed that money into American citizens’ well-being and progress. We also have homelessness in addition to the above.
- free_rms 6y ago
  There's a distinction between 'people' and 'Target', though.
  - Fellshard 6y ago
    And the people who work at and invested their savings into running the individual store? Are their lives unaccounted for, unaffected?
    - happytoexplain 6y ago
      Such tragedies are, of course, accounted for. Virtually nobody who is discussing this on HN is a monster who is not thinking of those people. Your accounting may differ, and you should express your thoughts on that.
- runarberg 6y ago
  > Riots for the most part affect people who had nothing material to do with whatever the complaint is This is an interesting point that should be addressed. I’m not sure I’m the most qualified, but I’ll try. Imagine you are trying to claim insurance on something but the insurance company has denied you. You believe you have rights to your claim but the only option they gave you is to call a phone number where an anonymous operator answers. They can only tell you the facts of the matter, and not transfer you up to a person with authority to revise the claim. What do you do? Do you get angry and direct your anger towards the operator, or do you calmly hang up, swear to your self for a day or two, and then forget about it? The first option is a normal human response, that most of us will do. Now bump up the stakes by a million, and imagine you are a part of a minority that has received systematic injustice for decades. You are told you have the option to try to affect the system from within, elect the right officials, get legislation through, etc. But at this point you believe it has been tried for too long and it doesn’t work. Now something happens that makes you angry and really your only option at this point (outside of taking things silently and accepting how things are) is to direct your anger straight at the system, but the only face of the system that is doing all this injustice are storefronts and institutions in your downtown area. The natural (and the only real choice) is to smash it. See looting is not just understandable action towards this injustice, it is also the natural response. And at this point, the only response.
  - mc32 6y ago
    Like I said above. It sounds like one trying to justify a person aggrieved by a boss and HR does nothing, boss doubles down, gets demoted -maybe it’s been relentless and one day they snap and they figure the whole office is going to pay. Sure he was caged in, no one heard him, he got ridiculed. As a society we don’t condone those outbursts no matter the self justification.
    - runarberg 6y ago
      I’m not sure what you are getting at here. Has the employee been severely bullied this whole time? Has the boss physically attacked the employee? Is all the office aware that this is going on (and some even take the employee’s side)? And is the response to throw down computers and roll over desks? If the answer to all of those questions are “yes”, then—as a society—we absolutely condone this outburst, and might even help the employee get legal justification in the process.
hirundo 6y ago
How is it morally justified to destroy a business if the people behind it had nothing to do with the subject of the protest? Collective punishment, which you are endorsing here, has many times been the justification for genocide by the millions and untold lesser injustices. It is one of the most evil and virulent ideologies humanity has ever indulged in. Please reconsider.
incantations 6y ago
Is there even any evidence to support the "black people are being hunted" narrative? Despite the loud and desperate cries, i have still yet to see any. And that's most likely because there isn't any.
rvz 6y ago
As history has shown in the 1992 LA riots, London riots of 2012 and now in this current unrest, there are those who have almost lost businesses due to rioters and looters attacking their property when they have nothing to do with the problem. [0] The protestors are with in their right to protest but only done peacefully. I don’t know how one can begin to ’justify’ a riot when it leads to the destruction of businesses and other people’s properties and not expecting a forceful reaction from the state. Especially if you’re looting from your own communities. [0][1] [0] https://www.westernjournal.com/black-small-business-owner-breaks-minneapolis-riots-consume-lifes-work/ https://www.westernjournal.com/black-small-business-owner-br... [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gFFaqyyYvTM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gFFaqyyYvTM
- rvz 6y ago
  > London riots of 2012 and now in this current unrest London riots of August 2011. not 2012.

mc32 6y ago

I don’t see how it’s morally justified except with very narrow scope. Riots for the most part affect people who had nothing material to do with whatever the complaint is. They’re virtually bystanders. It’s like the guy who has a legit complaint against his boss and decides “the whole office is gonna pay!” How have things worsened since the MLK days? Of course there is injustice and lots we could do for fellow Americans to give people an equal opportunity at a decent life, but I can’t imagine opportunity has gotten worse? Instead of rebuilding the Middle East or cruising through North Africa the previous decade, we could have ploughed that money into American citizens’ well-being and progress. We also have homelessness in addition to the above.

free_rms 6y ago
There's a distinction between 'people' and 'Target', though.
- Fellshard 6y ago
  And the people who work at and invested their savings into running the individual store? Are their lives unaccounted for, unaffected?
  - happytoexplain 6y ago
    Such tragedies are, of course, accounted for. Virtually nobody who is discussing this on HN is a monster who is not thinking of those people. Your accounting may differ, and you should express your thoughts on that.
runarberg 6y ago
> Riots for the most part affect people who had nothing material to do with whatever the complaint is This is an interesting point that should be addressed. I’m not sure I’m the most qualified, but I’ll try. Imagine you are trying to claim insurance on something but the insurance company has denied you. You believe you have rights to your claim but the only option they gave you is to call a phone number where an anonymous operator answers. They can only tell you the facts of the matter, and not transfer you up to a person with authority to revise the claim. What do you do? Do you get angry and direct your anger towards the operator, or do you calmly hang up, swear to your self for a day or two, and then forget about it? The first option is a normal human response, that most of us will do. Now bump up the stakes by a million, and imagine you are a part of a minority that has received systematic injustice for decades. You are told you have the option to try to affect the system from within, elect the right officials, get legislation through, etc. But at this point you believe it has been tried for too long and it doesn’t work. Now something happens that makes you angry and really your only option at this point (outside of taking things silently and accepting how things are) is to direct your anger straight at the system, but the only face of the system that is doing all this injustice are storefronts and institutions in your downtown area. The natural (and the only real choice) is to smash it. See looting is not just understandable action towards this injustice, it is also the natural response. And at this point, the only response.
- mc32 6y ago
  Like I said above. It sounds like one trying to justify a person aggrieved by a boss and HR does nothing, boss doubles down, gets demoted -maybe it’s been relentless and one day they snap and they figure the whole office is going to pay. Sure he was caged in, no one heard him, he got ridiculed. As a society we don’t condone those outbursts no matter the self justification.
  - runarberg 6y ago
    I’m not sure what you are getting at here. Has the employee been severely bullied this whole time? Has the boss physically attacked the employee? Is all the office aware that this is going on (and some even take the employee’s side)? And is the response to throw down computers and roll over desks? If the answer to all of those questions are “yes”, then—as a society—we absolutely condone this outburst, and might even help the employee get legal justification in the process.

hirundo 6y ago

How is it morally justified to destroy a business if the people behind it had nothing to do with the subject of the protest? Collective punishment, which you are endorsing here, has many times been the justification for genocide by the millions and untold lesser injustices. It is one of the most evil and virulent ideologies humanity has ever indulged in. Please reconsider.

incantations 6y ago

Is there even any evidence to support the "black people are being hunted" narrative? Despite the loud and desperate cries, i have still yet to see any. And that's most likely because there isn't any.

rvz 6y ago

As history has shown in the 1992 LA riots, London riots of 2012 and now in this current unrest, there are those who have almost lost businesses due to rioters and looters attacking their property when they have nothing to do with the problem. [0] The protestors are with in their right to protest but only done peacefully. I don’t know how one can begin to ’justify’ a riot when it leads to the destruction of businesses and other people’s properties and not expecting a forceful reaction from the state. Especially if you’re looting from your own communities. [0][1] [0] https://www.westernjournal.com/black-small-business-owner-breaks-minneapolis-riots-consume-lifes-work/ https://www.westernjournal.com/black-small-business-owner-br... [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gFFaqyyYvTM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gFFaqyyYvTM

rvz 6y ago
> London riots of 2012 and now in this current unrest London riots of August 2011. not 2012.