6 ms·

Please clarify: Are you against the practice of controlled digital lending of books scanned from physical copies in general, or do you merely have issues with t

by cygx 6y ago

Please clarify: Are you against the practice of controlled digital lending of books scanned from physical copies in general, or do you merely have issues with the 3 months of unrestricted lending?

mardifoufs 6y ago
I think his issue is with the IA unilaterally deciding that they can chose that they want to simply ignore the authors rights to get compensated for their work at any moment they want. And I totally understand his frustration. It's one thing to have pirating websites that have always distributed copyrighted material illegally. But for IA to decide that they only play by the rules when they want to is different imo. Not only is it bait and switch but it's also just weird to pretend to follow the law when you don't. Imagine your boss deciding that you just won't get compensated for a few months because they decided to give away for free the software you worked on. If IA wanted to give away other people's work , it's still up to them to foot the bill. It's not even that I'm totally against piracy, it's just that when I pirate I realize I'm not compensating the author and that if I like the stuff I'll try to do that later. Even the cracking scene tries to put notices on the torrents that if you like what you downloaded, consider supporting the creators. With how IA presents it's whole program, there's no way to explicitly know that the authors have had no say in the emergency library beforehand and that they don't get compensated . IA looks benevolent but the authors don't.
- mantap 6y ago
  Do authors have rights to be compensated? If I go to a library and take out a book, the author doesn't get compensated again. The book may be read by hundreds of people but it was only paid for once. If I lend a book I own to a friend, the author doesn't get compensated again. It's my book, not the authors, and I can let anybody I want read it. There has never been an expectation that authors get compensated for each person who reads a book. The system has never worked like that. A book is a physical object and authors get compensated for each physical book that gets sold. It's only with the recent advent of ebooks in recent decades that "pay per reader" has even become technologically possible. Since the 90s.
  - Zonulet 6y ago
    Here in the UK, if you go to a library and take out a book, the author does get compensated, it's called the Public Lending Right. Apparently in Denmark they've had it since 1941 so I don't think it took ebooks to make it technologically possible.
    - Nemo_bis 6y ago
      In USA, the system publishers love so much means that the libraries may go bankrupt when there is an increase in lending. Sure, in the short term it might sound profitable. https://www.wbur.org/artery/2020/03/20/demand-e-books-rises-area-libraries https://www.wbur.org/artery/2020/03/20/demand-e-books-rises-... http://www.ala.org/news/press-releases/2020/05/business-government-education-leaders-call-emergency-funding-libraries http://www.ala.org/news/press-releases/2020/05/business-gove... The Danish system works only because the state has agreed to foot the bill for whatever amount of money gets transferred to publishers. > In Denmark, library book loans fell from 34 million in 2000 to around 28 million in 2014. 38 E-lending has increased rapidly in Denmark since the launch of its eReolen national public library e-lending platform in 2011, but e-lending still only represented just over 2% of all book loans in 2014.39 Interestingly, eReolen has seen a surprising expansion in the number electronically loaned audiobooks, which are now outperforming e-books in the eReolen’s monthly loan statistics. https://www.statewatch.org/news/2017/dec/ep-study-e-lending.pdf https://www.statewatch.org/news/2017/dec/ep-study-e-lending.... https://www.kirjastot.fi/sites/default/files/content/Rapporten-Public-Library-e-Lending-Models.pdf https://www.kirjastot.fi/sites/default/files/content/Rapport...
    - extra88 6y ago
      It looks like Public Lending Right schemes for printed books exist in only a couple dozen countries and even fewer implement them as the UK has with payments per-loan (Canada does a one-time payment per copy). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Lending_Right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Lending_Right
  - coliveira 6y ago
    This is a flawed comparison. Libraries exist because they can lend a book to only one person at a time. They don't try to provide full access to a book to an unlimited number of people around the world.

by cygx 6y ago

Please clarify: Are you against the practice of controlled digital lending of books scanned from physical copies in general, or do you merely have issues with the 3 months of unrestricted lending?

mardifoufs 6y ago

I think his issue is with the IA unilaterally deciding that they can chose that they want to simply ignore the authors rights to get compensated for their work at any moment they want. And I totally understand his frustration. It's one thing to have pirating websites that have always distributed copyrighted material illegally. But for IA to decide that they only play by the rules when they want to is different imo. Not only is it bait and switch but it's also just weird to pretend to follow the law when you don't. Imagine your boss deciding that you just won't get compensated for a few months because they decided to give away for free the software you worked on. If IA wanted to give away other people's work , it's still up to them to foot the bill. It's not even that I'm totally against piracy, it's just that when I pirate I realize I'm not compensating the author and that if I like the stuff I'll try to do that later. Even the cracking scene tries to put notices on the torrents that if you like what you downloaded, consider supporting the creators. With how IA presents it's whole program, there's no way to explicitly know that the authors have had no say in the emergency library beforehand and that they don't get compensated . IA looks benevolent but the authors don't.

mantap 6y ago
Do authors have rights to be compensated? If I go to a library and take out a book, the author doesn't get compensated again. The book may be read by hundreds of people but it was only paid for once. If I lend a book I own to a friend, the author doesn't get compensated again. It's my book, not the authors, and I can let anybody I want read it. There has never been an expectation that authors get compensated for each person who reads a book. The system has never worked like that. A book is a physical object and authors get compensated for each physical book that gets sold. It's only with the recent advent of ebooks in recent decades that "pay per reader" has even become technologically possible. Since the 90s.
- Zonulet 6y ago
  Here in the UK, if you go to a library and take out a book, the author does get compensated, it's called the Public Lending Right. Apparently in Denmark they've had it since 1941 so I don't think it took ebooks to make it technologically possible.
  - Nemo_bis 6y ago
    In USA, the system publishers love so much means that the libraries may go bankrupt when there is an increase in lending. Sure, in the short term it might sound profitable. https://www.wbur.org/artery/2020/03/20/demand-e-books-rises-area-libraries https://www.wbur.org/artery/2020/03/20/demand-e-books-rises-... http://www.ala.org/news/press-releases/2020/05/business-government-education-leaders-call-emergency-funding-libraries http://www.ala.org/news/press-releases/2020/05/business-gove... The Danish system works only because the state has agreed to foot the bill for whatever amount of money gets transferred to publishers. > In Denmark, library book loans fell from 34 million in 2000 to around 28 million in 2014. 38 E-lending has increased rapidly in Denmark since the launch of its eReolen national public library e-lending platform in 2011, but e-lending still only represented just over 2% of all book loans in 2014.39 Interestingly, eReolen has seen a surprising expansion in the number electronically loaned audiobooks, which are now outperforming e-books in the eReolen’s monthly loan statistics. https://www.statewatch.org/news/2017/dec/ep-study-e-lending.pdf https://www.statewatch.org/news/2017/dec/ep-study-e-lending.... https://www.kirjastot.fi/sites/default/files/content/Rapporten-Public-Library-e-Lending-Models.pdf https://www.kirjastot.fi/sites/default/files/content/Rapport...
  - extra88 6y ago
    It looks like Public Lending Right schemes for printed books exist in only a couple dozen countries and even fewer implement them as the UK has with payments per-loan (Canada does a one-time payment per copy). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Lending_Right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Lending_Right
- coliveira 6y ago
  This is a flawed comparison. Libraries exist because they can lend a book to only one person at a time. They don't try to provide full access to a book to an unlimited number of people around the world.